4x09 The Royal Road to the Unconscious - Discussion Thread

[E Pluribus Unum]

Righty-o. Well it's rather long. :P But it would have been a helluva lot longer had I went 100% prose (which I initially did, then started again...)

This was a lot harder than I thought as I tried in vein to get the continuity correct. And although there's probably a few things off, I think I gave it a good bash :P

I tried to pack a lot of symbolism into this as well as a few easter eggs too :P

(Spoilers )

The name of the episode, and the general theme, is based on a theory Sigmund Freud had about dreams (although I do think it has changed since this original idea, the sentiment still remains the same) that we dream about situations and events that our brains need to 'finalize' or 'finish' that didn't or couldn't be fulfilled through our conscious days.

The secondary theme was based on the aged old 'game' idea... That, on the Island, people are either playing the game or being played by the game. In flashback Danielle was 'played' for the most part, manipulated into killing people... And Kate opposed it, instead of 'being manipulated into killing Sawyer' she did what she does best - and ran...

There's a few sneaky name drops, too:
René Descartes was a French philosopher who frequently used the term, I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I am (although he used 'I experience, therefore I am'. Apparently, translated by the philosopher John Locke, FYI :P)
Mulched Roofs is an anagram of Sigismund Schlomo Freud
Montand Jung (reference to Carl Jung, Freud's 'pupil' turned opposer)
And Brennan Radzinsky is in their too

(/spoilers)

By the way, I don't know that much about all of this... But it does interest me very much :P

Thoughts, theories and opinions

Oh and good luck Him

[Malion]

Wow, this was awesome.
I figured it would be in Other 48 Days style... but this is cool too.

You've explained a lot here brotha... and it all makes since from what I remember.
I see no obvious continuity flubs... or none at all really.

I thought the dialogue was spot on.

And congrats, you've offically put us ahead of the actual LOST team. :P

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by Malion

Wow, this was awesome.
I figured it would be in Other 48 Days style... but this is cool too.

You've explained a lot here brotha... and it all makes since from what I remember.
I see no obvious continuity flubs... or none at all really.

I thought the dialogue was spot on.

Thanks man

I had originally put in 'day 28' etc. But the gaps were just silly, and it would have seemed a bit of a leap going from scene to scene. Most of it happens over, about, a 6 week period.. If I remember correctly

My main worry was moving Danielle around the island at 7-8 months pregnant - he story had her going to the radio tower and had her team searching around for the numbers meaning before she gave birth so that was my main concern. I originally had her running away from the "Monster" but thought better of it and gave her an Eko moment :P

Originally Posted by Malion

And congrats, you've offically put us ahead of the actual LOST team. :P

Haha, oh yeah! Hands off JJ :P

[Malion]

I meant Other 48 days style as in... just a straight up flashback episode, with no crossing back to present time.

I'm glad it wasn't though, as the present stuff was pretty darn interesting. :P

[Him]

Great episode.

It's been a long time coming, even if it isn't actually on the show. :P

I thought you did a great job of creating a workable past, and not a necessarily clean-cut one either.

I thought you pinned the dialogue down very well. Use of 'an even keel' sounds very much like John Locke, and Kate's disjointed sentences made an appearance too. :P Sayid listening to Danielle while holding his chin made me laugh. Everyone was done very, very well.

Incorporating references to ramblings of philosophers like Freud, especially on dreams, is a great touch.

I think Danielle and Sayid have been underused this season, so it was very good to seem them take major roles in this episode.

The old-school flashbacking occurring while a topic has been brought up was very good. I prefer it like this, as opposed to one giant continuous flashback like The Other 48 Days (though I love that episode - it's done really well). It also moves the plot on.

Continuity seemed good. The end of the episode puts a spanner in the works of my plans for my episode, but it also leads nicely on, from a certain point of view.

Oh, and we now have a full-scale philosopher orgy. o/ Who knows when Nietzsche, Aristotle, and Kant will show up? If I shared a philosopher's name, and then a bunch of other people also claiming to share names with famous philosophers showed up, I'd be slightly suspicious that they were mocking me. :P (In seriousness though, the names are quite good.)

Good episode. (I'm only giving EPU special treatment here because he's pressuring me to do so - I do actually read everyone's episodes, and intend to write something about them in response (especially as the whole season has exceeded my expectations so far), I just start and never get round to finishing my posts on them. :P)

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by Malion

I meant Other 48 days style as in... just a straight up flashback episode, with no crossing back to present time.

I'm glad it wasn't though, as the present stuff was pretty darn interesting. :P

Oh I see. Yeah I had considered doing it like that too, but I wanted to keep things moving on Island. And there was just so many relevant things to the flashback and 'present time' (Radzinsky, the Numbers, the transmission, etc... As well as the themes I wanted to convey) that and I felt there needed to be some clarity between what we knew and what we were finding out...

And thanks, I hadn't actually planned it out to explain the Swan computers existence. But while I was writing the final scene - with Sayid and Danni - I realized it fit quite nicely (so I had Desmond appear, showing his basic 'medical' skills - so that it could all be linked together). And I love writing as Locke, in particular, he's probably the easiest to get across in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Him

Great episode.

It's been a long time coming, even if it isn't actually on the show. :P

I thought you did a great job of creating a workable past, and not a necessarily clean-cut one either.

Thanks man. Looking back I think it would have been easier to have Danielle come to the Island under the impression that she worked directly for Dharma (even if she didn't 'know' it) but I thought that would be too obvious - although I have a feeling that JJ may actually go that route.

Originally Posted by Him

I thought you pinned the dialogue down very well. Use of 'an even keel' sounds very much like John Locke, and Kate's disjointed sentences made an appearance too. :P Sayid listening to Danielle while holding his chin made me laugh. Everyone was done very, very well.

Incorporating references to ramblings of philosophers like Freud, especially on dreams, is a great touch.

I think Danielle and Sayid have been underused this season, so it was very good to seem them take major roles in this episode.

Cheers :P I love writing as Locke, I think he's the most unique of characters to do - and it was easy for me to see him saying what I had put; his mannerisms are probably the most recognizable. Plus he's my favorite character, which I think helps bundles when you're writing for them. I did laugh at the Sayid/chin bit too. It was very easily to visualize :P

Yes I agree. Especially Danielle, who started off the season getting shot! I think this explanation adds to Ben's motivation for wanting people to stay on the Island, and to stop others coming to it. Of course, that's still open to interpretation

Originally Posted by Him

The old-school flashbacking occurring while a topic has been brought up was very good. I prefer it like this, as opposed to one giant continuous flashback like The Other 48 Days (though I love that episode - it's done really well). It also moves the plot on.

Continuity seemed good. The end of the episode puts a spanner in the works of my plans for my episode, but it also leads nicely on, from a certain point of view.

Yeah I felt it was important for the episode to keep things moving. Even if it was just a few little things like the Kate and Locke conversation and her stand-off with Sawyer. I also wanted to see if I could incorporate flashback themes into current day events. I think both the aforementioned scenes did that, which I'm happy with, as it would have felt disjointed otherwise.

Originally Posted by Him

Oh, and we now have a full-scale philosopher orgy. o/ Who knows when Nietzsche, Aristotle, and Kant will show up? If I shared a philosopher's name, and then a bunch of other people also claiming to share names with famous philosophers showed up, I'd be slightly suspicious that they were mocking me. :P (In seriousness though, the names are quite good.)

Haha! Yes I know what you mean. I tried to have a few similarities between the philosophers and their Lost-created counterparts as well; like Roofs and his Freudian dream explanation and Descartes' skepticism.

Originally Posted by Him

Good episode. (I'm only giving EPU special treatment here because he's pressuring me to do so - I do actually read everyone's episodes, and intend to write something about them in response (especially as the whole season has exceeded my expectations so far), I just start and never get round to finishing my posts on them. :P)

lmao! How dare you! I'll look like some kind of attention seeker now :P You're the one who said you couldn't think of anything to write, and I jokingly said I expected an essay - careful what you wish for, eh?

[The Wizard]

Very good work EPU! :P

Someone had to do that Danielle flashback sooner or later

I can also visualise the 'Sayid chin bit' very well :P

And at this rate, I'm going to be writing about the arrival of the ship in the finale!!! I think the viewers would have committed suicide by now if the ship hadnt arrived by episode 9!!!

[Him]

?Ben cancelled the ship, don't you know. :P

[Malion]

At this point it's safe to say the ship went to the wrong island.

[E Pluribus Unum]

I was under the impression that the ship had been 'destroyed'. I'm sure someone said that in one of their episodes

[JB Sawyer]

Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum

I was under the impression that the ship had been 'destroyed'. I'm sure someone said that in one of their episodes

That is correct.