4x08 "Shine Down" - Discussion Thread

[JB Sawyer]

Right first off I know it's very very long, and I was one of the ones protesting that we should try and keep them short. But if Ki can do it, damn it I can too! :P (Only with it even longer than Ki's )

The title itself is up to the interpretation of the reader, it can refer to the obvious Charlie, Rachel or (and in my personal opinion) Juliet now. Another idea that was cinematicall it wouldn't rain in the entire episode.

I wanted the episode to have an old-school feel to it by including pretty much every single cast member.

I also think I managed to write each character as best as I could, and I'm particularly pleased with Jack and Sayid (particularly Jack as both Ki and SP will probably like the portrayal lol). The only thing is I think Locke sounds a little bit like Gandalf

Anyhu please post your criticisms, questions, praise () and anything else on 4x08 in here.

Oh and over to you EPU.

[hundredand8]

Oh my god. You killed Juliet! You of all people killed Juliet!

Nice touch that you referenced Carrie (I'm assuming thats correct, haven't actually read it you know). They planned this all along after all! Clever these writers!

I like how you got rid of the boat in this episode, I mean we've reached episode 8 and still no sign of a boat, it was beginning to get a little silly.

And its nice to see Charlies ring and the walkie-talkie being featured, I like that kind of continuity. And I started to cry towards the end of the funeral, it was really emotional.

I can't remember who Sullivan was and you've got to explain that nickname (Sue Snell) that shocked Juliet, cause I don't get it.

And its NOT too long, because its very good. It would be if it wasn't.

[E Pluribus Unum]

I loved it. And I think one of the most interesting things about this creative writing, is looking at how different people present each character (and, kudos at getting them all in their, I hadn't noticed so it was obviously done in a very natural way - none of it felt forced or out of place ) I think Sayid and Sawyer were pretty much spot on

The ending was kind of tragic - like Shakespeare even - but at the same time believable. Poor Jules

I liked the reference to Carrie too, very Lost like And you even manged to tie off a few loose ends too (Kate and the Man in Black, Charlies death..) Which makes my job easier

I've had my idea ready for a few weeks now, but wanted to see where you ended it JB, but I think I know how I'm going to do this now

[JB Sawyer]

Thanks guys Just to go through your points 108:

• Sullivan was the guy in Solitary with the rash (the hyperchondriac)
• Sue Snell is the girl in Carrie who is effectively, the heroine. She is pretty much the good person, apart from one moment in which she did a bad thing, that thing causing Carrie's spiral downwards.

[The Wizard]

Originally Posted by JB Sawyer

The only thing is I think Locke sounds a little bit like Gandalf

I did think that sounded a bit 'Lord of the Rings'

Overall I thought it was very good I enjoyed Juliet's death (what is wrong with me?) and I don't know if it's because I was cold or not, but I did get goosebumps during the memorial service

[Malion]

I liked it... I felt that that second flashback was a little out of place though... but by golly I loved it. :P
Karlex FTW!
Perhaps this will open a follow up for the person writing the Alex/Karl centric...

And you brought back Sullivan, very nice... and he's dead... but oh well. :P

Yes, I thought the Man in Black in this episode was very Nazgul-like, in the fact that he had a hood, and a piercing scream... :P Still good though.

I like that you included a lot of the cast, nicely done... but I must say, Sun's comment was a bit tactless. :P

Well done.

[JB Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Malion

Yes, I thought the Man in Black in this episode was very Nazgul-like, in the fact that he had a hood, and a piercing scream... :P Still good though.

I like that you included a lot of the cast, nicely done... but I must say, Sun's comment was a bit tactless. :P

That was actually pretty much how I pictured the MIB all along, like the Nazgul. Although the LOTR reference was more to Locke's "You have no business here" line lol.

How do you mean tactless?

[Malion]

Well, she was like "Charlie attacked me, but he wasn't a bad person." Why bring that up at all? That wasn't very nice to Charlie's memory.
I don't know... I'm weird about stuff like that. :P

[Kiowa Warrior]

Oh tut tut JB, that was far longer than 3 pages on Word! :P

It was really really good, and I'm shocked that Juliet went like that at the end! Poor woman. And I'm also feeling quite sorry for Ben as well actually after that...

But yeah, Ben and Jack were very in character I thought, with Ben's pretty emotionless speech at times and Jack being annoying as usual by wanting to rush head first into things instead of thinking them through!

And good to see Locke being a nice hero as well by saving Kate! Honestly, that woman has had quite a few times to be killed off by now but she's still with us, lol.

[JB Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Malion

Well, she was like "Charlie attacked me, but he wasn't a bad person." Why bring that up at all? That wasn't very nice to Charlie's memory.
I don't know... I'm weird about stuff like that. :P

It was basically because I think Sun would have needed to say it and this was pretty much the only time that Jin wouldn't have flipped out. It was while everybody was going on about all of Charlie's good points but we (as in I felt) did need to recognise that he hadn't been perfect. Sun's admission was basically a way of doing that.

[JB Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Kiowa Warrior

Oh tut tut JB, that was far longer than 3 pages on Word! :P

It was really really good, and I'm shocked that Juliet went like that at the end! Poor woman. And I'm also feeling quite sorry for Ben as well actually after that...

But yeah, Ben and Jack were very in character I thought, with Ben's pretty emotionless speech at times and Jack being annoying as usual by wanting to rush head first into things instead of thinking them through!

And good to see Locke being a nice hero as well by saving Kate! Honestly, that woman has had quite a few times to be killed off by now but she's still with us, lol.

I did admit that at the top of this page did I not? :P

Thanks Yeah, the truth about why I killed Juliet (not to influence EPU or anything ) was that basically I didn't want anyone else killing her off. I felt that I (no offence to any of the other writers) could give her the best send off and one most suited to her. And only you would feel sorry for Ben :P Seriously though, I did want to make him seem human (e.g. "Sorry") because to be honest we haven't seen many human qualities to Ben so far.

Ooh thanks, I struggled with Ben because I try to write each characters lines with their voices in my head, and I just couldn't imagine Ben/ME doing all this exposition. Jack I'll agree though lol, it was quite easy to write Jack.

Well I always had the plan to kill off Jules and I couldn't kill off both her and Kate in the same episode Damn you Beachy! :P

[hundredand8]

JB, do you have any idea just how close you are with your interpretation of Carrie/Juliet?

On the S3 DVD there is a feature called "The Book Club" which I watched yesterday and the writers said that they picked that for the opening scenes of S3 because they felt Juliets character was a bit like Sue Snell!