Was Walt even there when speaking to Michael!?

[D-Roc]

Ok, now this is just a thought - im not saying that i believe this even though ive thought of it..but you know when Mrs Klugh asked Mike whether Walt had "ever been somewhere that he wasnt supposed to be"? ..well i think this confirms that Walt can indeed project himself via his minds eyes etc...but do you think it's 'possible' that Walt wasnt even there when speaking to Michael?

What i mean is - was Walt, say, in the others hatch, but Mrs Klugh made him 'project' himself over to Mike to 'test' whether Mike could tell whether he was actually there or not? Is that why she said that he 'doesnt know alot about his son'?

Ok, there is the flaw that Walt actually hugged Mike, which would suggest that he was really in the tent with him..but lets not forget that when Walt 'projected' those animals [well i assume thats what happened with the bird etc]..they were still in their normal 'solid' form, if you know what i mean. So Walt may be able to project himself and yet appear in solid form and not just as thin-air. Hope that makes sense?

[StoneRose]

Its interesting Rocco

Maybe though, with regard to the animals, as it wasnt Walt himself projecting thats why they were in whole form. If he can project 'whole' how does that explain him talking backwards with water coming out of his mouth when he appeared to Shannon?

Also, I wonder if Walt can only project for 3 minutes at a time? Thats why Mike was only able to talk to him for that amount of time, as he would 'dissappear'

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by StoneRose,September 16, 2006 05:11 pm

Its interesting Rocco

Maybe though, with regard to the animals, as it wasnt Walt himself projecting thats why they were in whole form. If he can project 'whole' how does that explain him talking backwards with water coming out of his mouth when he appeared to Shannon?

Also, I wonder if Walt can only project for 3 minutes at a time? Thats why Mike was only able to talk to him for that amount of time, as he would 'dissappear'

At that stage [when he projected the bird] i doubt Walt was even aware that it was him doing it. Even with the Polars bears i dont think Walt was really incontrol of his powers - not conciously anyway.

I think that when he got taken his powers were still relatively naive and immature [if you get me?]..he wasnt in control of them. We saw from the polar bear/comic book burning and rain stopping incidents that whenever Walt is angry or emotional 'things happen'. It seems that this is when his powers are most powerful [and uncontrollable?]. This is why i think his 'message' to Shannon wasnt very clear. I believe that he was wet and speaking backwards because he wasnt in control of his ability at this stage and so his message got jumbled up - also he was being driven back to wherever on the others boat and he had got wet when he was taken, hence why his projection was also dripping wet, imo]. Also he was no doubt scared of what the others would do to him which perhaps further interferred with his projection/s - messing them up and making his words come out backwards etc. In other words his 'minds eye' was probably fuzzy and clouded. He could did the best that he could in warning Shannon [because she had Vincent - he's the key to his powers also methinks].

Thats my thinking anyway :P

Oo..and you may have a point about Walt only being able to project for 3 minutes. It certainly seems like he cant do it for any serious length of time. This is interesting because it would indeed be a logical reason for the 3 minute time limit imposed by Mrs K

[StoneRose]

The night Shannon died though Walt must surely have been back at th eothers camp though as the tailies had just arrived at the losties camp. So really Walt wouldnt be wet would he as he'd be dry and at the others camp?

I'm not really sure how astro-projection works as I'm assuming this is how Walt would be 'appearing' to people, but i'm sure from watching programmes like charmed,buffy and angel etc that the projected image of a person is never 'whole/touchable'. Not really anything to go off I know but this is the only knowledge I have of it.

I think his other powers of being able to control and conjur things with his mind will be an awesome power once he knows how to control it. I wonder if Walt knows he has powers and that he 'appeared' to Shannon? I dont think he does.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Ummm, this theory would be more about 'teleportation' than projection, Which I think is too science fiction

I do think that maybe one of Michaels flashbacks [featuring JUST him and Walt] might be something Mrs K was refering to...

[StoneRose]

Originally Posted by E PLURIBUS UNUM,September 16, 2006 04:39 pm

Ummm, this theory would be more about 'teleportation' than projection, Which I think is too science fiction

I do think that maybe one of Michaels flashbacks [featuring JUST him and Walt] might be something Mrs K was refering to...

Ah yes teleportation, which would mean that it would be Walt in 'whole' form that appeared to people. Good work E.

Maybe then he can only teleport for 3 minutes at a time. I cant see that eppy being called 3 minutes without a decent meaning for it.

[E Pluribus Unum]

lol Mike was given 3 minutes to talk to Walt. I think that's reason enough

Seriously though, I know what you mean, I can't help thinking there's another underlining meaning....

And I don't think Walt 'projected' any of the animals either. They're still a mystery - but I think the 'zoology' is as good a guess as any RE: the polar bear anyways

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by StoneRose,September 16, 2006 05:36 pm

Originally Posted by Stone Rose

The night Shannon died though Walt must surely have been back at th eothers camp though as the tailies had just arrived at the losties camp. So really Walt wouldnt be wet would he as he'd be dry and at the others camp?

Yeah i agree, he mustve been back at the others camp at that stage. Although i think that Walt was wet because it was actually raining when she got shot. Also..i think he was wet when he appeared in her tent - i think a possible explainantion is that he is able to control the weather somehow. I dont think Walt's powers a re restrained to projection..i think he can 'control' things as well because remember when he made the rain stop when Mike was putting off looking for Vincent because it was raining? ..I think his projection gets muddled up with his 'other' powers [pun intended :P ]..which may be why he was wet in his other projections?

I'm not really sure how astro-projection works as I'm assuming this is how Walt would be 'appearing' to people, but i'm sure from watching programmes like charmed,buffy and angel etc that the projected image of a person is never 'whole/touchable'. Not really anything to go off I know but this is the only knowledge I have of it.

The thing is though Astral projection isnt really proven in real life [though im confident it is possible for some]..and so we dont really know how it works as such. Astral Projection is more pseudo science rather than science and so it's fits perfectly within the 'Lost' framework as they can use it how they wish without worrying about how accurate it is. I reckon that Walt is so powerful that he can project and still retain his solidity.

Ive just found this cool stuff on Astral projection -quite interesting from what ive read so far: Astral Projection

I think his other powers of being able to control and conjur things with his mind will be an awesome power once he knows how to control it. I wonder if Walt knows he has powers and that he 'appeared' to Shannon? I dont think he does.

How cool, i just mentioned his other powers [above] as well ..yeah once he matures and deveops his abilities i think he will be so powerful - far superior to the likes of Malkin and Issac..and even Charlotte!

I think this is what the others are doing to him in the testing room - theyre trying to understand and deveop his powers methinks.

I get the feeling that Walt isnt 'quite' sure that he projected to Shannon or anyone. I think he has an idea but i rekcon his minds eye is operating more at a subconcious level than a concious one. Though im sure he's gradually becoming aware of his abilities etc. I also think that he projected to Shannon because she was the one who was looking after Vinnie at that time.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by E PLURIBUS UNUM,September 16, 2006 05:39 pm

Ummm, this theory would be more about 'teleportation' than projection, Which I think is too science fiction

I do think that maybe one of Michaels flashbacks [featuring JUST him and Walt] might be something Mrs K was refering to...

But the thing is weve already crossed the line of strict science fact and science fiction a long time ago - remember the black smoke?

But to be honest i would class all of this -the black smoke [nanobots?], Projection and teleportation as 'pseudo-science' rather than science fiction.

I agree that perhaps Mrs K was referring to a pre-island vision or dream that Mike thought he had which was in actual fact Walt projecting to him. That is very likely ..but i also think there 'could 'be another dimention to what she was saying..as outlined above

[Murgatroyd]

Just a vague observation, but I felt that Walt's appearing soaking wet, aside from being a Japanese horror film rip-off, was primarily meant to convey that something had gone badly wrong on the raft. I actually think if I'd seen him I would've assumed he'd drowned....

[E Pluribus Unum]

Projection is likely. We can do that with technology - holograms etc - teleportation is transporting matter. Which is theoritically [I think] impossible, where as projection in itself is likely and [as I said] alrady used today..

The black smoke, you can't label that at the moment. [Although sadly, the creators have ruled out nanobots] it could be something else. We don't even know it's physical, it could just be 'hiding' like smoke and mirrors [?] what really is going on. Some kind of mechanical device...

[D-Roc]

Is that soley what you felt at the time Murg, or do you still believe that now? [that something went wrong on the raft]

Btw, just out of interest, which Japenese horror film was that ripped off from? - not the one with Sarah Michelle Geller was it [although that was a US remake] :P

[StoneRose]

Interesting link about astral projection there.

I do think it was the real Walt who appeared to Mike though, as at this stage I think that Walt doesnt have total control over his poweres and I'm not sure the others could have made him project/teleport to Mike as I'm not sure even Walt knows how to do it properly yet.

So many angles to this though that I cant be sure. Can th eothers bring/force this out of him?

[StoneRose]

Originally Posted by E PLURIBUS UNUM,September 16, 2006 04:59 pm

Projection is likely. We can do that with technology - holograms etc - teleportation is transporting matter. Which is theoritically [I think] impossible, where as projection in itself is likely and [as I said] alrady used today..

The black smoke, you can't label that at the moment. [Although sadly, the creators have ruled out nanobots] it could be something else. We don't even know it's physical, it could just be 'hiding' like smoke and mirrors [?] what really is going on. Some kind of mechanical device...

If thats the case then. Walt must have been the real Walt when he appeared to Mike the wouldnt he?

Would a human be able to project themselves without the aid of technology then? According to the above link yes, so maybe thats what Walt did when he appeared to Shannon.

I also had the same thought as Murg when I saw Walt, that the Losties would think something has gone wrong with the raft as he was dripping wet.

Also, adds wait to the theory that he appeared to Shannon because she had Vincent. Other than that I dont think they were particularly close were they?

I agree E about the b/S too. Its a great theory that its smoke and mirrors and hiding whats actually there, this would explain the mechanical noise sound it made when dragging Locke into the pit. It wasnt the B/S, but the thing it was hiding that made that noise.

[St. Anger]

Soon, if Walt's abilities become more powerful, he'll overthrow the Others' hold on him and even help the Losties who are bound get into some trouble in S3, judging from the likelihood of events building up to the finale.

Walt's mumble jumble vision to Shannon is what got her killed because she went running after him, so maybe Walt defintely needs to develop his powers and make more sense when projecting himself.

He's only a kid, so it's likely his powers are like Superman's when he was a child. There could be no stopping Walt IF he develops more powers, but I guess how far can this projection thing really benefit him??