Everything Changes

[Reed]

This is not really incredibly important and has probably been mentioned before but are 'loops in time', 'different dimensions', 'repeated History' and 'time travel' the reason all the background characters keep changing?

But you are probably thinking why have the main cast stayed the same. Well because they were MEANT to be on the Island and no matter how many times "Time" changes, they will always have boarded Flight 815.

Sawyer had no idea who Nikki was and I recall theories at the time stating that they had been "introduced" to the Island through History changing or what have you. They were suddenly apart of the Pilot during the ON-Island flashback in S3. Of course if we are to believe they were there ALL along, obviously that is a stretch because they simply were not.

If time is tampered with, more specifically the past, the present will change and you will presumably NOT know the changes have happened because they become apart of History and you would not know any better. Interesting to note Sawyer knew something was not quite right.

So is this what is meant by the term "Everything Changes" that we heard back in S3? Are events constantly changing? What else has changed, if anything?

I often think "de-ja-vu" occurs because events are repeating themselves; a wild theory I know. And Science can attempt to prove that wrong but since when do they prove anything without random, unless nonsense and jibberish that they expect people to believe and take their word for?

"History is about to repeat itself, right here, right now" - Ben, S3.

[The_abbott]

I would like to think Nikki and Poolo were a time anomoly and not just badly cast characters!

[Reed]

I agree. Though Paolo was most definitely terrible-er.

[Toby]

Woah Slow down.

Everything Changes is much more integral than you think.

1. Jin to Hurley in Season 2 in the hatch hallulitionation: "Everything is going to change"

2. A baby will change everything. Refering to Suns baby?

ETC, theres a few more I cant remember, its been a while, but im so glad you brought this back to our attentions.

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Toby

Woah Slow down.

Everything Changes is much more integral than you think.

1. Jin to Hurley in Season 2 in the hatch hallulitionation: "Everything is going to change"

2. A baby will change everything. Refering to Suns baby?

ETC, theres a few more I cant remember, its been a while, but im so glad you brought this back to our attentions.

Ahh yes I forgot about those incidences. These definitely point to something big in the show.

Slightly off-topic, but I could see Sun's baby playing a role in Lost much like Aaron in terms of Aaron's supposed importance and the issue of whom is to raise him etc. The offspring of the Chosen Ones [aka the Survivors] so to speak.

[KatesFate]

This is not really incredibly important and has probably been mentioned before but are 'loops in time', 'different dimensions', 'repeated History' and 'time travel' the reason all the background characters keep changing?

But you are probably thinking why have the main cast stayed the same. Well because they were MEANT to be on the Island and no matter how many times "Time" changes, they will always have boarded Flight 815.

Sawyer had no idea who Nikki was and I recall theories at the time stating that they had been "introduced" to the Island through History changing or what have you. They were suddenly apart of the Pilot during the ON-Island flashback in S3. Of course if we are to believe they were there ALL along, obviously that is a stretch because they simply were not.

This would be one of the best reasons I have heard of for introducing Nikki and Paulo and giving them their own flashback. I am doing the rewatch right now and will have to start paying more attention to the everything changes statements.

[Reed]

Originally Posted by KatesFate

This would be one of the best reasons I have heard of for introducing Nikki and Paulo and giving them their own flashback. I am doing the rewatch right now and will have to start paying more attention to the everything changes statements.

I think someone may have brought the Paolo/Nikki theory up before though I cannot be sure but it is interesting nonetheless.

It is possible that we are "supposed" to ingore the background characters but it is so evidently clear that they have changed over the Seasons and time issues would be a great way to explain WHY they change. I think Sawyer's comment to Nikki - "who are you again?" - who surely a nod to this theory.

Perhaps a big secret and even a way to end Lost is to bring this to the forefront and reveal that things have been "changing" the entire time on the Island and somehow incorporate this into a big storyline.

Interesting that Paolo and Nikki pretty much had no purpose besides their silly Diamond storyline though I had heard rumours [from TPTB] that they would turn out to be important. Well there is still time I suppose.

[D-Roc]

Whilst I do believe that Sawyer's confusion over 'Pikki' was the creators way of echoing the fans derision/confusion (just as they later did with Sawyer's asking "who's Jacob?" in TSottC - echoing fan questioning over the fact that the characters are not seen to share enough details between them) - it is indeed interesting to consider exactly what happens to time once it has past.

Ben's turning of the wheel proved that time can be bypassed as if it never existed. So who's to say that the constant 'changes' to time cannot do the same to the human 'memory', if you will.

Perhaps the only way to keep track of all the changes (spec) is to make 'time' your 'constant'? Is this what Jacob did - is this why he seems able to predict the future and appear God-like in the eyes of the "Natives"/"Others"?

Interesting, Reed.

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Joke-R

Whilst I do believe that Sawyer's confusion over 'Pikki' was the creators way of echoing the fans derision/confusion (just as they later did with Sawyer's asking "who's Jacob?" in TSottC - echoing fan questioning over the fact that the characters are not seen to share enough details between them) - it is indeed interesting to consider exactly what happens to time once it has past.

Ben's turning of the wheel proved that time can be bypassed as if it never existed. So who's to say that the constant 'changes' to time cannot do the same to the human 'memory', if you will.

Perhaps the only way to keep track of all the changes (spec) is to make 'time' your 'constant'? Is this what Jacob did - is this why he seems able to predict the future and appear God-like in the eyes of the "Natives"/"Others"?

Interesting, Reed.

Well only Locke knew about Jacob in the Survivors' camp as by this point Locke was more of a loner than he had ever been. I suppose he had no reason to tell anyone about Jacob, as they never gave cared about anything else he had to say - let alone telling them about an invisible man living in a Cabin.

But regarding other information, the Survivors' have always been absolutely aweful as spreading 'important' information.

Well while I am open to the idea that the Island can move in 'Time', we have no concrete evidence YET. If indeed if did, finding it again will be impossible for anyone that has left. To be honest I can definitely believe and "buy into" the idea that the Island can DEFY time.

My idea would be that changes in the 'past' would alter people's memories as part of the changes the 'future' would experience. This is interesting because perhaps the flashbacks are not what they seem if they have been changed?

How would someone make time their 'Constant'? But that is very interesting that someone could be exempt from having THEIR past changed. I think while Ben has been the middle man as it were between Jacob and the Others, I think that Jacob has done GREAT things for them and he surely has special 'powers/abilities'.

Perhaps Jacob is unmoveable in time, which is what you are saying I think. I would love to believe that Jacob can see in ALL directions along the "time space continuum"; Backwards, forwards, into different/alternate dimensions and loops.

He uses information from all of these to shape events on the Island. Why? For a better or particular future that NEEDS to happen? Perhaps the Island is at the CENTRE of time, which is WHY/HOW Jacob is on the Island and nowhere else.

Perhaps Jacob IS time and everything is changing before our very eyes.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Reed

Well only Locke knew about Jacob in the Survivors' camp as by this point Locke was more of a loner than he had ever been. I suppose he had no reason to tell anyone about Jacob, as they never gave cared about anything else he had to say - let alone telling them about an invisible man living in a Cabin.

Very true, now that you mention it, it's not as surprising that Sawyer didn't know about Jacob at this time. Although wasn't Sawyer aware that Locke was looking for 'someone' from early on in S4, when Ben told John that he was 'more lost than he's ever been' (at the circle of ash)? But granted, Sawyer wasn't completly in the loop, as you infer.

But regarding other information, the Survivors' have always been absolutely aweful as spreading 'important' information.

Indeed, I find it slightly ironic that many people have slated the Others for keeping secrets from the Losties, yet it's clear that the Losties haven't helped matters by keeping secrets from one another!

Well while I am open to the idea that the Island can move in 'Time', we have no concrete evidence YET. If indeed if did, finding it again will be impossible for anyone that has left. To be honest I can definitely believe and "buy into" the idea that the Island can DEFY time.

I guess we don't have any concret evidence of the island moving in time just yet, although I would expect that if Ben was able to move 10 months forward in time by pushing the wheel, then the island itself would also move (backwards?) in time. But granted, at this juncture we only know that the island has definitely moved in 'space', since we saw it 'disappear' from the POV of the Oceanic collective and Frank.

Yeah, finding the island will be very difficult now for the O6, although i'm interested to know what "ideas" Ben has of getting back.

My idea would be that changes in the 'past' would alter people's memories as part of the changes the 'future' would experience. This is interesting because perhaps the flashbacks are not what they seem if they have been changed?

very interesting Reed. I agree that there is plently of potential for this premise. If the past changes then what becomes of the future? Are current and future memories and experiences overwritten by Orientation-video-like 'splices' and edits? As you inferred earlier, is this where dejavu comes from?

Interesting notion re: the flashbacks - it would certain place them in a different sphere of relativity wouldn't it. If ones past is literally edited out to form a different past, then this could re-shape a persons entire life into..well..John Locke > Jeremy Bentham proportions.

What is the past but a string of time. What happens if we cut that string and tie the two pieces to seperate strings?....

How would someone make time their 'Constant'? But that is very interesting that someone could be exempt from having THEIR past changed. I think while Ben has been the middle man as it were between Jacob and the Others, I think that Jacob has done GREAT things for them and he surely has special 'powers/abilities'.

I'm not entirely sure how one would make time their Constant, but I would guess that it would involve having experienced 'one' 'time' already and living another time with the knowledge of the previous time. For instance, a person dies and is reincarnated with the knowledge of their past life - effectively 'time' could be their Constant because they have duel knowledge drawn from a past time which is now their 'Constant' within the confines of their current time. I guess, time-travel could also yield the same results, as long as the time-traveller had something from which to reference their duel time strands. As long as they were 'aware' that they have existed in two seeming;y seperate times.

But again, i'm not entirely sure..this is just the way I would preface it.

Indeed, if we then look at this in terms of a person being 'exempt' from having their past changed, if they were to return to their 'original' time, then they would not only take with them knowledge from their original time, but knowledge from the time from whence they just came..so they would theoretically be able to use these 'memories' to unchange their past..which would now be their 'present'.

Perhaps Jacob is unmoveable in time, which is what you are saying I think. I would love to believe that Jacob can see in ALL directions along the "time space continuum"; Backwards, forwards, into different/alternate dimensions and loops.

Yes, quite possibly. One wonders, if he is an unmovable object, who or what is the unstoppable force..time itself?

Ah, so we can change (the past) time but has anyone ever tried to STOP time? Is it possible to stop a ticking clock? (but off topic there).

He uses information from all of these to shape events on the Island. Why? For a better or particular future that NEEDS to happen? Perhaps the Island is at the CENTRE of time, which is WHY/HOW Jacob is on the Island and nowhere else.

Interesting. So in a way he is like a grand master? A cheating Chess player?

"Why?" is a very good question, perhaps the main question. I would also guess that it's because what is "supposed" to happen. One suspects that Dharma (or perhaps those before Dharma) did something to the world's internal 'clock'..time-travel was perhaps never a gift meant for mortals, but once we obtained it, we knew not what to do with it's power, we knew not how to course correct out mistakes? Perhaps Jacob, the Island, the Universe has one last chance at correcting the mistakes..mistakes that if not undone, will be curtains for all of us?

Although I do get the sneaking suspicion that Jacob is just some guy who got caught up in this. Or perhaps..perhaps it was his destiny, just as it was John's, just as it was..just as it is..?

Perhaps Jacob IS time and everything is changing before our very eyes.

"God loves you as he loved Jacob" .."Only fools are enslaved by time and space"

It would seem you could be right, Reed.