The Most Logical Way for Kate to be Aaron's Momma

[D-Roc]

This isn't exactly groundbreaking stuff, i'm sure - however I like writing down my thoughts even the half baked ones.

Basically I've heard alot of people suggest that Future Kate must have kidnapped aaron in order for her to be his "momma" back in the real world (apprx 2005/6). However, as much as I can't stand Kate (and I can't STAND Kate!), I just don't think this is the case. Why? Well, Kate is many things, but I don't think that they would have her directly betray Claire in order to make better her chances of being 'free' when she leaves the island and goes back 'home'. And that's the thing - Kate WOULD believe that having a child would make her a more sympathetic case should she face prison upon her return, for all of her past crimes. We, the audience, have the benefit of knowing that Kate knows that 'people know who she is' (Miles told her in Eggtown) and hence the Feds would notice should she happen to reappear one day. And we also know from the same episode that once she returns to the 'real world', she does indeed face jail-time.

However, as I said, i just don't think she would 'kidnapp' Aaron. I do, however, believe that she would knowingly agree to take Aaron from his mother because Claire wanted him to 'grow up in a normal environment' (yeah, like Kate's "normal") etc, because she knew that it would benefit her political bargaining power in the event of her facing jail-time upon her return to the real world.

I think this option makes the most sense, as i'm thinking that Claire must 'give' Aaron to Kate (who at somepoint finds out that Kate has a ticket off the island?) on the basis that she take care of him and love him like her own. We obviously know that Kate is one of the 'six' to make it off the island, but we don't know exactly when this happens (although it has to be early 2005 in order for the Ji Yeon flash forward to work) or who finds out and how much time they have to let this information sink in. But i'm thinking that Claire makes a snap decision to give Aaron to Kate. The other option is that Claire dies just before they O6 get to leave and Kate takes on the maternal responsibilities - I guess Sun would be out of the question since she's already got her own baba to think about.

anyway, as I said, not ground-breaking but I just want to record my thoughts on this yadada.

also, as much as I don't believe Kate would steal Aaron from Claire, I do find the premise interesting when compared to Rousseau stealing Aaron from Claire a few seasons ago. The premise of Kate stealing Aaron from Claire is near-identical to the reason why Rousseau stole Aaron from Claire - to broker a deal/get something in return (an 'eggtown' if you will).

I just find it interesting from a personal persepective that I can't really envisage Kate stealing a child from his mother, yet we already know that Rousseau (who's probably more sympathetic than Kate in my eyes) has already done this. Does this suggest that my opinion on Kate is improving? Doubt it, I just don't think Kate stealing Aaron would make particularly good story-telling, when the alternatives are so much better, if less devisive

[firebreathingfishies]

I agree that Kate wouldn't steal Aaron. People make her out to be this horrible person, but she's not bad at all. Fair enough she killed her stepfather, but she thought she was protecting her mother. If anything, she's just slightly deluded. And the idea that she would have taken Aaron in hopes that the court would be lenient on her is ridiculous, as Kate was adamant to keep Aaron out of the court anyway.

Something definately happened to Claire to force her to give Aaron to Kate, whether she is killed or perhaps kidnapped or something. I doubt Jack/Kate/Hurley/Sun/Sayid would willingly split Claire and Aaron up like that. I think Hurley at least would have given up his seat to Claire, so something definately happened to her. Actually... I hope she's not dead...

[E Pluribus Unum]

I agree, I don't think she stole Aaron; as you say we have no logical reason to presume this: she has no past experiences of kidnapping/nor is she particularly fond of children...

However, I don't really think Kate took Aaron with the idea that she would use Aaron to aid in her case. As, well, we know she did what she could to avoid using Aaron in her case.

It's possible, I suppose, that Kate originally thought that (use Aaron to improve her standing) but - after creating a bond with Aaron - decided not to use him in the case (he's never mentioned during the trial, from what I remember, and from what I know - which is rather limited - the jury is asked only to use information and evidence in court to make a decision...)

I do think Kate is the kind of person who could do something like this, but from what we've seen I'm all but certain she didn't or at least changed her mind. Lest I'm missing something glaringly obvious!

[firebreathingfishies]

Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum

It's possible, I suppose, that Kate originally thought that (use Aaron to improve her standing) but - after creating a bond with Aaron - decided not to use him in the case (he's never mentioned during the trial, from what I remember, and from what I know - which is rather limited - the jury is asked only to use information and evidence in court to make a decision...)

I really don't think Kate ever had any intention of using Aaron for the 'sympathy vote'. She was probably so hard on the idea of bringing him into the case because of a respect for Claire/Claire's wishes.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by firebreathingfishies

I really don't think Kate ever had any intention of using Aaron for the 'sympathy vote'. She was probably so hard on the idea of bringing him into the case because of a respect for Claire/Claire's wishes.

I'm inclined to believe you, really, but it's possible that Kate was asked by Claire to look after Aaron and took him with the idea (or possibility) that it could aid her case; seeing Aaron as more of an 'aid' rather than responsibility. Only to actually fall-in love (per-se) with the little blight.

Kate doesn't come across as a naturally mothery person but she certainly didn't seem out of her depth when she tucked wee Aaron in.

--
As I say though FBF, I'm inclined to side with you on this. I was merely throwing the possibility about! Catch!

[firebreathingfishies]

Ouch! (the possibility hit me )

I actually quite like Kate now, and I'm looking forward to seeing how she gets Aaron. I hope it's another tear-jerky moment and not a everyone-running-and-screaming-panic scene.

[charlierocks]

After reading this I thought of Clare's dream, back in raised by another. As far as we know, Locke is on the island, and if Clare is alive then I assume she must be. Remember that Kate's plane was in the crib/cot and Locke said something about giving him away. Could the dream have been about Kate taking Aaron, rather than Ethan taking her??
Just a off the top of my head thought, I think I'll re read the transcript of Clare's dream to see if I make more sense then!!!

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by firebreathingfishies

I agree that Kate wouldn't steal Aaron. People make her out to be this horrible person, but she's not bad at all. Fair enough she killed her stepfather, but she thought she was protecting her mother. If anything, she's just slightly deluded. And the idea that she would have taken Aaron in hopes that the court would be lenient on her is ridiculous, as Kate was adamant to keep Aaron out of the court anyway.

Something definately happened to Claire to force her to give Aaron to Kate, whether she is killed or perhaps kidnapped or something. I doubt Jack/Kate/Hurley/Sun/Sayid would willingly split Claire and Aaron up like that. I think Hurley at least would have given up his seat to Claire, so something definately happened to her. Actually... I hope she's not dead...

Hmm, personally I do think she's a bad person..or at least she is a very morally skewed one. I can't defend her over killing Wayne because as Diane (her mom) said - she did it for herself..not for her mom. I think for the powers that be to make Diane say that, tells us something about their own opinion of Kate.

But that aside I agree with you that she is 'deluded'. Perhaps this delusion has come from her always feeling that she has to run - the consequences being that she is never able to trust anyone..including herself, as indicated with her running away from her hubby to be. Although I would like to think that she left him out of compassion for him and not wanting him to be caught up in her shizz, but i fear that she was on her self-preservation thing again.

But yeah, back to Aaron - It's weird isn't it. Something must have happened to Claire (I don't think she died), but perhaps there was another list (Jacob's) which permitted only these people to leave..these "lucky" people (as Hugo would now probably believe)? But the thing that also boggles the mind is how Hugo came to be part of this group when he was with Locke - a person he later regrets siding with.

It just seems like the choice of who leaves was taken out of their hands..or perhaps only one person got to choose - Jack, perhaps? This could explain his angst over shacking up with Kate and Aaron whilst his decision left his step-sister on "crap-hole"..

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum

I agree, I don't think she stole Aaron; as you say we have no logical reason to presume this: she has no past experiences of kidnapping/nor is she particularly fond of children...

However, I don't really think Kate took Aaron with the idea that she would use Aaron to aid in her case. As, well, we know she did what she could to avoid using Aaron in her case.

Hmm, I see where you're coming from..and she did hesitate in using Aaron for her case - but i think that she is conceited enough to intend to use Aaron yet not go through with it a year later when she has established a bond with the child. I think that initially (whenever Claire gave Aaron to her..or however Turnip head came into her possession) she was eager to use Aaron as the sympathy card - perhaps not explicitly, but in her heart.. Could be wrong, of course, but thats my reading of the character.

It's possible, I suppose, that Kate originally thought that (use Aaron to improve her standing) but - after creating a bond with Aaron - decided not to use him in the case (he's never mentioned during the trial, from what I remember, and from what I know - which is rather limited - the jury is asked only to use information and evidence in court to make a decision...)

Oh yes, I agree with that. I think it's possible that after creating a bond with the child, she had a change of mind. which, I suppose, deserves some credit.

But check this - let's say that Claire did give Aaron to Kate and that Claire is still alive somewhere on "Crap-hole"...what does Kate's complete unwillingness to go back to the island say about her..? Is she unwilling to return because she knows that she will have to give Aaron (who is effectively her son at this stage) back to Claire..or is she so unwilling for another reason?

I guess the question is; should Kate do everything in her power to get Aaron back to his rightful mother?

Hmm...

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by charlierocks

After reading this I thought of Clare's dream, back in raised by another. As far as we know, Locke is on the island, and if Clare is alive then I assume she must be. Remember that Kate's plane was in the crib/cot and Locke said something about giving him away. Could the dream have been about Kate taking Aaron, rather than Ethan taking her??
Just a off the top of my head thought, I think I'll re read the transcript of Clare's dream to see if I make more sense then!!!

Good point CR, and it's certainly worth considering just how useful Malkin's insight was. I think esn also mentioned something similar in another thread.

I'll give this some more thought tomorrow as it might be worthwhile. Cheers for throwing it into the mix!

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

But check this - let's say that Claire did give Aaron to Kate and that Claire is still alive somewhere on "Crap-hole"...what does Kate's complete unwillingness to go back to the island say about her..? Is she unwilling to return because she knows that she will have to give Aaron (who is effectively her son at this stage) back to Claire..or is she so unwilling for another reason?

I guess the question is; should Kate do everything in her power to get Aaron back to his rightful mother?

Hmm...

Good question, though I think there are a few issues to consider when we questions Kate's 'willingness' to go back:

Kate going back for Claire could put Kate in danger and leave Aaron without anyone in the world: Should Kate be risking that?

At what point does Kate have the same 'rights' as Claire with regard to Aaron? I've always believed that a mother is not defined by blood, but by love and being there for your child. Now, of course, I'm sure that Claire isn't trapped on the island because she wants to be, but I think it's interesting to consider that Kate has been Aaron's "mother" for? 4-5 years now. That's a huge chunk of Aaron's life and, it could be argued, gives Kate has as much right to guardianship over Aaron as Claire