CHRISTian Vs The ANTI CHRIST (Abbadon)

[esn]

Just to further on from this theory and also this one I thought I would throw this idea out there.

A lot of people have already pointed out that the man in Jacobs cabin that Hurley saw looked like Christian Shepard - aka Jacks Dad. Now, as we know, pappa Sheps has had a influence in 4 of our losties lives. Potentially more when you consider that prior to him going to Aus and killing himself (apparently) he was known to go AWOL before. What could he have been doing all of those times I wonder. Possiably pulling the strings to get them to the island?

I have also been thinking that Jacob could be a potential puppet master so to speak, IE the man who controlled all their destinies to bring them to that point in time to serve a specfic purpose. Now IF, as it seems, Jacob is in fact Christian Shepard then we have ourselves an interesting proprosition.

Alternatively, I have also been thinking that Matthew Abbadon could also be a canditate for a 'master puppeteer role' given his instance that there were no survivours of Oceanic 815 and then later (or earlier depending on how you view these things) meeting up with one of the Oceanic 6, Hurley. And then I looked at his name - Abbadon. Now like I said on another thread, you dont have to look too far into the internet to see the significance of this name. It is one of the names given to the Anti-Christ or the devil himself. And then I started thinking that perhaps, there isnt one master puppeteer, but 2. "Two sides, two players, one is light, the other dark".

Which brought me back round to Christian again. Thinking about why Christian MIGHT have been in the cabin, and why he MAY have asked Locke to help him, a flash went off in my head. His name.

CHRISTian. Now Im not saying that Daddy Shepard is the second comming - far from it, just simply more of a neat trick by the writers of the programme to demonstrate who one of the 'king pins' are in the whole 'two sides' thing. And the way that they demonstrate his opposite number? With the name Abbadon aka the ANTI -CHRIST or the anti Christian Shepard if you will.

[Losty]

That's a really good spot, esn! I never noticed that...

I think you have a good point. If Shepard was Jacob, then that would explain White Rabbit, but not how Jack saw his dead body in Sydney. Perhap's it's his ghost, perhaps it's Smokey, perhaps he was never dead to begin with. If CHRISTian was the good guy then why would he be 'working' for the Others? "Help me..."...I get it.

Abbadon. That guy frickin scares me. So I can believe that he is the bad guy, or in this case, the Anti Christ. I don't see how he could be some kind of master puppeteer, unless he was working with Christian. He could have planted a fake body, could have gotten Naomi and the rest on the island, and get them the hell outta there (well, six of them).

This would be interesting.

[D-Roc]

It's difficult because we know so little about Matthew. His name is an obviously clue which you have utilised well in this theory. I just have trouble buying the idea of 'good' and 'bad' in the context of Christian Shepherd and Matthew Abbadon.

Whilst I am far more sympathetic towards Christian thesedays than I was pre-Jack beating his father to a pulp at AA meeting, I struggle to see him as 'representing' 'good'..or 'light' as you put it. Likewise, I struggle to see Matthew as 'bad' - for now at least.

I think that light/dark are metaphors which we have to be careful with, as we often find that they neither represent good or bad..but a collective..balance.

With that said, I do like how you've utilised the puppet master idea - both men seem to be pulling certain strings - Christian, not so much in the show, but the final Mobisode put that idea back into play - "He has work to do".

I would also like to throw an idea at you - Abbadon also has another connotation - many believe Abbadon not to be satan..but the angel who holds the key to hell.

If we take this premise, we are perhaps left with a completely different view on Matthew - not one of a bad man..but of a man who is protecting the world from those who seek to harm it.

I'm not sure where this would stand in relation to my current view on the Lost landscape, however I thought I'd throw it out there since I'm a big believer in not believing what I'm expected to see. It was the same with Ben and the Others.

Just cos i'm not necessarily agreeing with all of your views on this, it doesn't mean it's not a good idea, btw. Hope to see this develop!

EDIT: I also want to clarify that my interpretation of light and dark, both in life and on the show, is that of balance..not good or bad, since that wouldn't work imo.

[esn]

Originally Posted by Losty

That's a really good spot, esn! I never noticed that...

I think you have a good point. If Shepard was Jacob, then that would explain White Rabbit, but not how Jack saw his dead body in Sydney. Perhap's it's his ghost, perhaps it's Smokey, perhaps he was never dead to begin with. If CHRISTian was the good guy then why would he be 'working' for the Others? "Help me..."...I get it.

Abbadon. That guy frickin scares me. So I can believe that he is the bad guy, or in this case, the Anti Christ. I don't see how he could be some kind of master puppeteer, unless he was working with Christian. He could have planted a fake body, could have gotten Naomi and the rest on the island, and get them the hell outta there (well, six of them).

This would be interesting.

Well Losty perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I dont mean to say that one side is good and the other evil, or even light and dark for that matter, that wouldnt make sense to me. Just that they are reperesentative of two sides that oppose each other. Kinda like a game of chess, or backgammon even, with both sides manipulating their pieces into positon. In short both sides managed to manipulate people to be on that island, on that plane even.

Has for Christian being in Sydney, it is worth noting those medusa spiders that make one appear dead for a certain period of time. It is also worth noting that he could be able to project either himself there or on the island at certain points as and when required. Also, all the people at the hotel and the hospital in Sydney could be on his team so to speak - in Lost, not everything is what it appears. Dont forget Jacks Mums words "Bring your Father home Jack" could she really mean the Island?

[esn]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

It's difficult because we know so little about Matthew. His name is an obviously clue which you have utilised well in this theory. I just have trouble buying the idea of 'good' and 'bad' in the context of Christian Shepherd and Matthew Abbadon.

Whilst I am far more sympathetic towards Christian thesedays than I was pre-Jack beating his father to a pulp at AA meeting, I struggle to see him as 'representing' 'good'..or 'light' as you put it. Likewise, I struggle to see Matthew as 'bad' - for now at least.

I think that light/dark are metaphors which we have to be careful with, as we often find that they neither represent good or bad..but a collective..balance.

With that said, I do like how you've utilised the puppet master idea - both men seem to be pulling certain strings - Christian, not so much in the show, but the final Mobisode put that idea back into play - "He has work to do".

I would also like to throw an idea at you - Abbadon also has another connotation - many believe Abbadon not to be satan..but the angel who holds the key to hell.

If we take this premise, we are perhaps left with a completely different view on Matthew - not one of a bad man..but of a man who is protecting the world from those who seek to harm it.

I'm not sure where this would stand in relation to my current view on the Lost landscape, however I thought I'd throw it out there since I'm a big believer in not believing what I'm expected to see. It was the same with Ben and the Others.

Just cos i'm not necessarily agreeing with all of your views on this, it doesn't mean it's not a good idea, btw. Hope to see this develop!

EDIT: I also want to clarify that my interpretation of light and dark, both in life and on the show, is that of balance..not good or bad, since that wouldn't work imo.

Again with you Roco, I probably wasnt that clear. I wasnt making out that good and evil plays apart in the show, or even light and dark for that matter, just two opposite forces that are against each other. Just thought it could be nice symbolism for the two forces to be lead by, in effect Christ and the Anti Christ. Again, I must reiterate that I do not think that good vs evil comes into it. To put it another way, ying v yang might be a more apt description. Remember that discussion you and I had on C4SF ages ago about all the different symbolisms on lost? The moon and the sun, fire and water and so on? well they all apply here, and its like you said, I belive that what needs to happen (hence my 'third side' theory) is for them to work together (Like Locke and Jack need to)

I havent seen the mobisode so I cant comment on that. Likewise I cant rememeber AA meeting.

Im also intrigued by your idea with Abbadon being an angel that holds the key to hell Roco and you linking it to Ben and it will be somthing for me to keep in mind. Id also like to throw somthing else back at you. First name of Abbadon is Mathew right? Well correct me if Im worng arent the 4 diciples
Mathew Mark Luke and John? So could there be a Locke link there also? That would be somthing that needs more thought.

[Mariusuk]

This is quite interesting, for some time I have been seeing a few parallels with The Stand by Stephen King which has the opposing forces of The Walking Dude and Mother Abigail

hmmm

I also like the point about the spiders, I have not been convinced Christian is dead

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by esn

Again with you Roco, I probably wasnt that clear. I wasnt making out that good and evil plays apart in the show, or even light and dark for that matter, just two opposite forces that are against each other. Just thought it could be nice symbolism for the two forces to be lead by, in effect Christ and the Anti Christ. Again, I must reiterate that I do not think that good vs evil comes into it. To put it another way, ying v yang might be a more apt description. Remember that discussion you and I had on C4SF ages ago about all the different symbolisms on lost? The moon and the sun, fire and water and so on? well they all apply here, and its like you said, I belive that what needs to happen (hence my 'third side' theory) is for them to work together (Like Locke and Jack need to)

Ah I see. Yes, I would be more open with the adjusted wording - two opposite forces..or perhaps two very similar forces with slight differences?

I do agree that symbolism plays a major part in Lost's story-telling.

Originally Posted by esn

Im also intrigued by your idea with Abbadon being an angel that holds the key to hell Roco and you linking it to Ben and it will be somthing for me to keep in mind. Id also like to throw somthing else back at you. First name of Abbadon is Mathew right? Well correct me if Im worng arent the 4 diciples
Mathew Mark Luke and John? So could there be a Locke link there also? That would be somthing that needs more thought.

Yes, the creators do like the Biblical references, and so we could perhaps also bring John Locke into there somewhere. Afterall i'm sure the names (even to this day) are chosen for a reason, as you suggest.

[esn]

Ok I may have the theory right here, but the worng peoples involoved.

Like I say, I do now belive that Christian and Abbadon are working together in this, and it is Ben and Widmore that are the opposing forces at work here.

The theory, still by and large works though