*New* Theory on the Coffin - Double Amputee

[D-Roc]

The question over who is in the coffin has been one of the most pressing topics of discussion for Lost fans.

Whilst I fully expect this theory to be wrong, I hope at least that the logic and thinking behind it will be able to stand on it's own merit.

I should also explain that the candidate for 'who is inside the coffin' is not new, however I hope that the theory iteself and the thinking behind it is.

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One of the things that many LOST fans have queried whilst discussing the identity of the person in the coffin, is it's relatively small size - in particular it's length:



This has caused many to believe it is infact a child inside the coffin. My theory suggests that the person in the coffin is indeed an adult..not a child, but an adult. The small size can be explained by the absense of legs. Specifically, I am suggesting that the person inside the coffin literally lost their legs - thus reducing the amount of space required.

The identity of this person is, of course, John Locke.

His whole entire story (once Cooper pushed him out of the window) is driven around the desire to walk..to achieve the impossible.

"Don't tell me what I can't do!" was his mantra

In "Walkabout" his cites Norman Croucher, the climber of Mt Everest, as his inspiration - "double amputee"..just as was to become of Locke..

One might question why it was that Locke lost his legs. I believe this to be due to the fact that the island healed his legs..this made him "special" (as explained by Ben in 3.13)..no-one could take this away from him except the island..or someone wanting to remove Locke's 'specialness'. Someone willing to remove Locke from the game and literally cut his specialness out of him by removing both his legs. Rendering him back to not only level 1 in the 'game' (Jacob's ladder?)..but level 0.."a tabular Rasa"..



Jack's guilt ridden response can be explained by his regret over 'making that call'..allowing 'rescue' to come to the island..allowing them to cut off Locke's legs in the process. Of course this is not done immediately..but perhaps over the course of the next 2 seasons we will discover the atroscities that these 'rescuers' will commit in order to re/claim the island(theory)..

Further fuel for this idea is the multitude of missing limbs that we have in the show..from those missing from dolls found scattered in the jungle, to Marvin Candle's (or whatever he calls himself these days) prosphetic arm, to the missing limbs depicted on the 'Room 23' conditioning video.

Even Mikhail's missing eye could be cited as a clue.

It could be argued that with no or little hope of getting back to the island and with no chance of EVER walking again, Locke (under a new Alias) decided to kill himself..perhaps with the hope of getting back to the island via a manifestation (afterall, he had a communion with the island..if anyone could go back that way, it would be him)

The teenaged son? Walt..he adopted him after he returned from the island..Walt being left an orphan by Michael's murder -either at sea (bumped into freightites who took his son?) or back in the real world (theory).

As an alternative to an amputeed Locke being in the coffin, I would suggest Ben..under similar circumstances..that is, having both legs removed




The question of how this could be portrayed realitically in the show - that is, with either Locke or Ben having both legs removed..well I think it can be done quite easily



Many films and TV programmes have had the skill to pull such an effect off without the need for CGI or fancy special effects.

I hope to come back to this with updates, aswell as to answer or take on board any questions or suggestions.

Whilst I don't expect this to be accurate (I also think the coffin could be a ruse, with no-one being inside it), I am struck by the way this could all lace togehter. The producers have a habit of long conning us with short con set-ups..but as they say, "it's all about the details". - I hope I haven't missed any?.

[D-Roc]

Update:

Also, noticed where Jack is placing his hands over the coffin..exactly where a persons legs would be..

[Murgatroyd]

Much as I pledged not to debate, and though I think it *is* a good idea, I thought about it myself a while ago and figured it couldn't happen - for an adult, whatever size they've been reduced to, you would always use a full-size adult coffin ... for the sake of dignity, essentially. But I'm confused about the apparent size of this coffin too. No-one would be as scornful as Kate was about a child's death, yet the coffin doesn't look like a full-sized adult one. I'd suggest it was some kind of an accidental perspective trick, only the top-down shot suggests otherwise. I suppose if the person had no money and no-one to pay for a proper coffin, they *might* skimp on materials (US healthcare suggests so anyway), but I'd be kind of surprised. But yeah. It's a big mystery.

(Sorry. One-off.)

[Him]

This isn't a new idea, as I've definitely discussed it before, I believe with Ki (if she remembers?) before the server crashed.
As Murg says, they don't give smaller coffin to double amputees. I know this first hand unfortunately, as a relation of mine had his legs amputated in an unsuccessful attempt to save his life. I doubt the writers would make a mistake like that.
I think the coffin actually is full size (albeit, perhaps a rather wide one). Jack looks bigger than he should because of the angle, but if you believe the coffin's not full sized, and compare the size of his waist to the coffin, you may be surprised.
It's also worth looking at other screen captures, where there are no signs of it being undersized: Lost Photo Gallery - 3x22: Through the Looking Glass Screen Captures/3x22-glass1109 .

D-Roc Update:

Also, noticed where Jack is placing his hands over the coffin..exactly where a persons legs would be..

I think the head-end (for lack of a better phrase) is usually the smaller compartment?

Incidentally, I do believe the man in the coffin is John Locke, but not for this reason obviously.

[Easily confused]

Originally Posted by Him

I think the coffin actually is full size (albeit, perhaps a rather wide one).


I think the head-end (for lack of a better phrase) is usually the smaller compartment?

I think the same as Him

If you look at the picture of Jack standing next to the coffin and visualise him turned round so he would be laying where the coffin is then I reckon he would just fit into it so person inside is a bit shorter than him but definitely full sized person

[The_abbott]

Looks like the coffin was cut in half at some stage. Is it Boone? LOL!

I think the image is misleading. I remember seeing my grandad in a coffin which was small and thin as when you are dead you do shrink a bit and can squeeze into a slimline coffin. My grandad was about 5 foot 7 or 5 foot 8 when he died so it could be a normal sized adult in the coffin.

[Kiowa Warrior]

Ah yes I do remember talking about this with you before the forum crashed Him; we had a very good debate thread that unfortunately got eaten up!

I think it is a strong possibility that Locke ends up in the coffin, maybe because he broke the habit and did help people escape the island and so was somehow punished by the island (like losing his legs in a way that required amputation and so he killed himself. Which is one theory I've read, not mine). Maybe he has to leave the island while others remain behind in order for their lives to be saved, but so that everyone is still punished by the evil Not Penny's Boat crew (Locke who wants to stay has to leave and everyone else who wants to leave have to stay), and in despair Locke kills himself.

But I really don't like the theories that end with Locke killing himself! If he does have to die it's just got to have some meaning and purpose to it, like him sacrificing himself so that people could escape the island, because the poor man's suffered enough as it is. Which could be why Jack comes to visit him, because only now that he's off the island does he know the price Locke paid...and that he's feeling guilty for not making the most of Locke's sacrifice because he now wants to go back. If Kate is the only other person to escape the island then it seems that she's busy with 'him' and it's not as if Locke had any friends or family to attend his funeral, so only Jack going does have some logic behind it.

[supermoo19]

I'm not sure guys...maybe it IS a child's coffin and Walt is inside. The reason nobody would go to his funeral could be because he was found out to have been the human personification of "Jacob" the controller of the Island, and the master of the suvivors destinies...

I do really like the Locke theory though - very good. I must admit my second reaction when I saw that scene at the coffin viewing was that it had to be someone Jack had "saved" who had subsequently died. Ben would fit that theory, and would also explain why nobody else wanted to go to the viewing, but doesn't fit in with the "J" in the paper cutting...this is a great mystery !!!

Hope you are all good,

Charlie

[-x-madegurl-x-]

i think that is a good theory, however what you said about jack´s hand - i think that´s where the person´s head would be due to the opening of the coffin being smaller on that side, for it to be opened to display the head.

[D-Roc]

(Him, Ki - fair dues, although I genuinely can't recall such a theory, I've just developed the thinking behind this using my own reasoning, ideas and thoughts. I guess this is what they call the stream of consciousness!)

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I still think this could work - the main sticking point does seem to be the size of the coffin and the suggestion that amputees do not receive smaller coffins.

Whilst this is probably true in many cases, I'm not convinced that it is true in 'every' case. The funeral seemed to be low budget - whoever paid for it either didn't have much money, or didn't care that much for the person inside the coffin. Is it possible that a smaller coffin would be more inline with the bill payers budget? If the person inside didn't need those extra inches, then perhaps the person paying would go for a smaller size?

However the other sticking point is, as mentioned, the possible deceptive angle that the coffin was viewed. In my original picture above, the coffin certainly seems to be smaller (shorter) than, say Jack..or Locke who is roughly the same height. However in the picture provided by him, the coffin appears to be alot longer:



I guess this could go eitherway..who is to say which picture captures the definitive size of the coffin? All I know is that I was struck, like others, by the smallness of the coffin, when considering who could be inside.

Originally Posted by murly

i think that is a good theory, however what you said about jack´s hand - i think that´s where the person´s head would be due to the opening of the coffin being smaller on that side, for it to be opened to display the head.

Thanks Murl - yes that's a good point, maybe it is the persons upper body where Jack is resting his hand? Infact on 2nd inspection it does seem like it - which still makes me wonder - why is he placing his hand there..why near the head..and not, say, the heart or the hands? Perhaps it's because the person is reported to have hung himself(according to the paper clipping)? I guess it could indeed be argued that he is placing his hand near the neck then..

But perhaps more important than where he is placing his hand..is who would he show this sign of devotion to..who's path has affected his own enough for him to make this gesture? I can only think of a handful out of those we know - Juliet, Kate, Ben and Locke. Remove Juliet and Kate (for obvious reasons), and we're left with Ben or Locke.

I still believe that Locke could kill himself (or be murdered) - I could see him struggling from his wheelchair to hand himself, for instance. I think that would be the overlapping circle that TPTB could want to show us. But this would mean that Locke would die before LOST ends..unthinkable..surely?

Which brings me back to Ben. I am his biggest fan, but I'm not convinced that he will see out the show - I also think that Jack would feel guilty enough to show Ben such a sign of compassion by going to his funeral and touching the coffin the way that he did.]

If the man inside the coffin IS Ben, then the teenaged kid could still be Walt - having adopted Walt in a similar way to my Locke suggestion in the first post. Or..and this is the interesting one..it could be Karl. For me Karl has no story left and yet at the end of S3 he was still alive and well, with no sign of him being knocked off. Karl being Ben's son would not only explain Karl's continued presence in the show, but it would also make clearer Ben's reasons for not wanting him and Alex to sleep together (as if death by conception wasn't already enough).

Intriguingly it could be argued that Shannon and Boone's incest was part of the reason why the island 'arranged' their deaths..perhaps Ben knows that the island doesn't appreciate incest and hence his eagerness to prevent any sibling romance between Alex and Karl (although even in this scenario they wouldn't be blood related - Unless Rousseau was also Karl's mom!)

So, i'm still stuck between Ben and Locke..My head says that it's Locke inside the coffin, but Ben would also make alot of sense.

I'm also holding onto my reasoning behind the double amputee scenario - I think there's alot in that which is of value..even if the theory had to be adjusted 'slightly'

Originally Posted by supermoo

I'm not sure guys...maybe it IS a child's coffin and Walt is inside. The reason nobody would go to his funeral could be because he was found out to have been the human personification of "Jacob" the controller of the Island, and the master of the suvivors destinies...

That's also a good point. It could actually be a child's coffin..Walt being the prime candidate - it would also explain Jack's grief, guilt and sympathetic hand gesture. Although this falls down over Kate hating Walt enough not to go to his funeral..and with the newspaper clipping saying that it was an adult man with a teenaged son..

Unless you're suggesting that Walt as we know him no longer exists and Jacob has manifested himself into Walt's body..which wouldbe a good idea, except this wouldn't explain how he is able to have a teenaged son and be considered an adult?

I do really like the Locke theory though - very good. I must admit my second reaction when I saw that scene at the coffin viewing was that it had to be someone Jack had "saved" who had subsequently died. Ben would fit that theory, and would also explain why nobody else wanted to go to the viewing, but doesn't fit in with the "J" in the paper cutting...this is a great mystery !!!

Thanks,
Hmm, interesting - it would make sense if it was someone who Jack saved...but how about if it was the other way around - i.e., the person in the coffin "saved" Jack? Locke and Ben could both fit into this..

Although why would Kate being so anti them, despite appearing to be enjoying her freedom back in the real world?

It would suggest that this person, whoever he is, made a decision which Jack can see the value..the sacfrice in but Kate cannot.

Does this come down to Jack becoming more "connected" with the island? I may sound like Ben saying this, but it's relevant - is the reason why Kate cannot understand, because she isn't "connected"?

I need to think this over, but I still think that this theory has some gas - at the very least I think the Walt being adopted angle is very plausible..

[D-Roc]

Just to get some bearings I'm comparing the coffin sizes of the one at the funeral parlour with Christian's (Jack's dads):





Verdict: Inconclusive, however Christian's looks bigger to me.

Although this brings me to another point - to my knowledge, we've only ever seen 3 coffins in the entire 3 seasons of this show - that's despite all of the deaths we've had along the way.

Those coffins are: The one in Jack's FF and the core subject of this thread, and the following two:


Jack's Dad's Coffin - EMPTY!


Locke's dad's coffin - EMPTY!

Notice a theme?

Both coffin's are the fathers of Jack and Locke - Lost's central two characters. Not only that, but both coffins are also EMPTY.

I have two thoughts concerning this - the first is one of my previous theories which point to the coffin in Jack's forward flash actually being EMPTY..just like the other two I have mentioned above (a ruse to lure Jack to the funeral home and test whether he still cares..whether he's still "invested"). My second thought is that an alternative to the coffin being empty is that is contains Locke - It can't contain Jack because we clearly see that Jack is still alive at this point, and Locke is the only abberation in this pattern. I guess i've come full circle.

Kate's reaction to Locke (the man in the coffin) can be summed up by what he said to her in the season 3 episode "left Behind". He turned his back on her..her next interaction with him was when he stuck a knife in Naomi's back. After that, we don't know but i'm sure the blanks will be filled in to further establish a division between the two characters.

Whilst the idea of Locke being in the coffin is certainly nothing new, I'm still thinking that the 'double amputee' aspect could hold a grain of truth..and the idea of him (or Ben, if it's Ben inside the coffin) adopting Walt (explaining the 'teenaged son' in the newspaper clipping) is certainly plausible, imo.

Let's take another look at why it would make so much sense for the man inside the coffin to be Locke:


The Vitruvian Jock


The Vitruvian Man

I have long believed that Leonardo's Vitruvian Man was the inspiration for the image above of Jack and Locke..and perhaps the characters themselves. The Vitruvian man shows the perfect set of proportions for the human body..I believe that only TOGETHER are Jack and Locke whole. They need one another, hence Locke's unwillingness to kill Jack and thus preventing him from making 'that' call. This could also be the reason why Jack wasn't "supposed" to do what he did in calling the freighter people - by making that call he not only changed the course of his own future..but Locke's. Could this be what Locke was told by Walt/Jacob after he was ressurected from the pit of despair?



Which in turn brings me back around to my original point: Would this man fit inside this coffin?:



Hmm, not sure. Perhaps with no legs he might. Well he would.

Jack and Locke..the scientist and the man of faith..only the "two sides"..one light, the other dark, can save us.

[charlierocks]

If you look at the screencap of when Jack walks through the door, there is a table on the left, as you look at the photo, of the coffin. Yet when Jack approached the coffin and touches it the table isn't there. Maybe there is more than one funeral, or perhaps the writers have something else up their sleeves???
I'm not sure what they could be doing next but I think there is two versions, either in Jacks mind or 2 separate events??? This doesn't answer any of the questions, but it adds another which could maybe help the theories!!

[The Wizard]

or just a continuity error... although I hope it's not.