Jack Shepherd: Dying to Live?

[D-Roc]

I can't recall Ben delivering "retribution"..certainly not on the level you suggest. If anything hasn't he overlooked the torture that Sayid inflicted upon him (etc)? I geneuinely see Ben as a forgiving man..which is quite ironic seeing as he was 'possibly' describing himself when telling Jack about his leader being 'unforgiving' (although granted, he may have been refering to Jacob, and that would also make alot of sense regarding Jacob's current confinement).

I'm not as convinced about Kate's horse as you are - I think that it could just as easily be the result of collective consciousness / vision, which would explain why Sawyer also saw it.

You're suggestion about Kate's reason for not wanting to return to the island is certainly interesting. However I would argue that she has had more 'spiritual' encounters than we perhaps remember - as well as seeing the horse (I realise you don't subscribe to it being a manifestation/vision, but it's certainly possible), she was also flashed by the Smoke Monster (her 3rd encounter with it now) and she 'experienced the spirit of Wayne' through Sawyer (as you mentioned). Granted, these experiences are perhaps not as solid as Locke's or even Jack's, but I think it's worth considering that she has had more 'experiences' with island spirituality than many of her friends. Still, I like your idea.

I agree that Jack has a very large connection to the island..it's possibly like a drug to him now, hence the pill-popping metaphor.

Going back to the 'living to die' concept again for a moment - If one could in someway return to the island through death, then could this explain Mikhail's willingness to die to the cause? Or perhaps Ben's desire to live refutes the entire theory? Ben seems very determined to remain alive, which could suggest that if he did die then he wouldn't be able to manifest (return) as an entity of his former self? Perhaps he fears that the island wouldn't choose to embody him. Which in turn suggests that the island 'chooses' who to manifest. Or, perhaps, if Ben did die then he'd have the face the spirits of the Dharma purgees?

I'll continue to think this speculative thread through as I'm sure there's 'something' in this.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

Good spot!
You're right, the Jack we knew wasn't really in to exploring the depths of the visions or anything intangible (although his father did appear to speak to him on the Hydra's intercom). However that was island Jack - I think it's apparent that post island Jack has changed somewhat..he's seeking answers, he's popping pills (his version of Locke's Wacky paste), and he's even grown a beard! Seriously though I think it's possible that post-island Jack is more 'open' to the idea of 'the power of dreams'..I bet post-island Jack is now more open to following possible signs and such ..Maybe he's even had a visitation that we don't know about? Alot could've happened between him making that call and him calling Kate, begging her to go back with him.

We now have confirmation that Jack did indeed receive a 'visitation' (4.10) as suggested above - importantly it seemed to be this moment that finally unhinged him - coupled with the guilt and shock of past events, the visitation of Christian Shepherd seems to have been the final nail in the coffin as far as Jack's mental/emotion desire to get back to the island is concerned.

I am less sure as to whether or not Jack thought that by killing himself he could return to the island as a spirit/manifestation (although it's certainly still in play).

[D-Roc]

Ah, sweet thread of mine, I shall update you once I turn this frozen wheel.