Locke = Special

[Reed]

When Emily told Locke he was "immaculately conceived" in De Ex Machine, is there a chance she was telling the truth?

My theory is that Cooper [being a Con-Man] did his homework and "somehow" found a matching doner and it's mother. He realised the mother needed or would probably be acceptable to a large cash sum in return for tricking her son into giving Cooper his kidney whilst predicting her son would contact Social Services to his father. The icing on the cake for Cooper is that the mother never knew her son and was evermore likely to help the Con-Man for her own personal gain.

Cooper lied to Locke in regard to his little speech when they first met about how he seperated from Emily before Locke was born. It was ALL part of the Con. While Emily's "he's always been good like that", referring to Cooper being generous with money could indicate the two knowing each other in the past [a fling perhaps]. However while knowing each other and staying in contact, they NEVER produced a baby.

After years of giving handouts to Emily he finally had had enough and blackmailed her into helping him with his Con if she wanted one more handout. Sawyer made mention of getting the women he conned into believing it was THEIR idea - as did Cooper on this occasion.

Of course Cooper would then become the Con-man who ruined Locke's life as opposed to the father that ruined his life, in turn the father storyline is not redundant/meaningless as some suggested with KoR-evo's Emily/Annie theory.

"You were part of a design" - Emily told Locke. Life's Destiny/Fate design? She made mentioned of "great things" were going to happen to Locke, which as of this moment I believe is true re: Locke's journey on the island.

Emily's comments sound awefully "Other-ish" don't they? You are special, part of a design, greats things will happen etc... Sounds like something Ben would say. Again KoR-evo's theory about Emily being Annie - Ben's childhood friend. I think it is possible they are the same person.

Was Emily ever on the island? Theories have stated Locke was born on the island. For whatever reason both mother and son left back in the 1960's and Emily put Locke up for adoption. Why? Perhaps she was strengthening Locke as Locke did with Charlie. She knew raising Locke would not set him on the "path to greatness".

The design did NOT call for Emily to raise Locke. Is Locke some kind of Savior, as was Jesus who was ALSO immaculately conceived. While Locke has had set-backs on the island, maybe he truly is destined for great things. Emily knew it when she gave baby Locke away, Locke knew it pre-island and he feels these feelings even greater now.

This theory probably has holes but is it not plausible?

[Kiowa Warrior]

I do like the theory that Locke has had a previous connection - previous involvement with - the island before he crashed onto it, like if he really was born on it but then taken away to see how 'an island baby' would act in the real world or if he does have a distant/immediate family member on it now, but personally I think Locke really is as ordinary as he seems on the surface: that he was born naturally to Cooper and Emily but was not wanted even at that early age, and after a really tough life he found a connection with the island when he landed on it.

While this connection with the island Locke has could be almost like a kick start from the connection he already forged with it years and years ago, it's equally or, in my opinion, more likely that it's just one of those things that happen without any real underlying explanation or significance...when you do something and just know that this is right for you, even though you can't explain it even if there is an explanation for it. If that makes any sense, lol. But yeah, it is an interesting theory though Reed! With Cooper pretty much anything's possible after all.

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Kiowa Warrior

I do like the theory that Locke has had a previous connection - previous involvement with - the island before he crashed onto it, like if he really was born on it but then taken away to see how 'an island baby' would act in the real world or if he does have a distant/immediate family member on it now, but personally I think Locke really is as ordinary as he seems on the surface: that he was born naturally to Cooper and Emily but was not wanted even at that early age, and after a really tough life he found a connection with the island when he landed on it.

While this connection with the island Locke has could be almost like a kick start from the connection he already forged with it years and years ago, it's equally or, in my opinion, more likely that it's just one of those things that happen without any real underlying explanation or significance...when you do something and just know that this is right for you, even though you can't explain it even if there is an explanation for it. If that makes any sense, lol. But yeah, it is an interesting theory though Reed! With Cooper pretty much anything's possible after all.

That is perfectly fine, I do not believe it 100% myself but thought I would put it out there. I heard on a site, may have been this one, about Locke being an original inhabitant on the island [as a baby], I am just adding the "immaculately conceived" notion.

That is very interesting, and I wonder what exactly were Dharma's expectations and hopes from sending a baby into the real world. Perhaps it was a personal reason and not the work of Dharma per say. Yes, it would be much more likely for Cooper to be John's father as opposed to him being immaculately conceived.

Well Locke was referring to Destiny pre-island [Walkabout] telling the man "I was meant to do this...". I think without going over specifics that it is very clear why John has SO much faith in the island and why his faith [and feeling of purpose] was susceptible to increase post-crash given his state of mind. Events of his past and the events at hand gave him enough reason to believe.

Originally Posted by Kiowa Warrior

it's just one of those things that happen without any real underlying explanation or significance...when you do something and just know that this is right for you, even though you can't explain it even if there is an explanation for it. If that makes any sense, lol.

But yeah, it is an interesting theory though Reed!

But that is why it is called "faith", because one does not really know what, why or how - but you go do what feels right. It is a gut-feeling I think you are referring to, like an instinct which is based on a strong faith. Locke obviously found this easier [than others] because he needed a purpose in life. A mid-life crisis gone very bad, in a sense.

Thank you

[Kiowa Warrior]

Originally Posted by Reed

That is perfectly fine, I do not believe it 100% myself but thought I would put it out there. I heard on a site, may have been this one, about Locke being an original inhabitant on the island [as a baby], I am just adding the "immaculately conceived" notion.

That is very interesting, and I wonder what exactly were Dharma's expectations and hopes from sending a baby into the real world. Perhaps it was a personal reason and not the work of Dharma per say. Yes, it would be much more likely for Cooper to be John's father as opposed to him being immaculately conceived.

Well Locke was referring to Destiny pre-island [Walkabout] telling the man "I was meant to do this...". I think without going over specifics that it is very clear why John has SO much faith in the island and why his faith [and feeling of purpose] was susceptible to increase post-crash given his state of mind. Events of his past and the events at hand gave him enough reason to believe.

It's always good to put out theories or expland upon existing ones...I'm sure Roco put forward a theory a while ago that Locke was an original porduct of the island, but my memory isn't that great so I could be wrong on that score, lol.

Yeah if Dharma did have a hand in creating Locke on-island why then would be be sent away...perhaps it was to see if one of their creations - or traits he housed that they had specifically created - could survive in the real world, or would produce a marked (and superior) difference to the person they affected. Or perhaps Locke was never meant to leave the island, but a Dharma traitor somehow managed to free him from the island. But saying all that I don't really support those theories, but they certainly are interesting to speculate upon!

Yes definately: Locke wanted a purpose for his life long before he crashed onto the island, and probably by repeatedly saying to himself that there was more to his life than permanent wheelchair confinement he truly came to believe in it, even though on the surface it seems highly unlikely. Sort of like a survival mechanism, becuase if he didn't hang onto the belief (which eventually strengthened and arguably still blinds him to this day), he may well have ended up suffering from depression again. And when he crashed onto the island his mentality of 'there's more for me than what I've got' was fully cemented for him, and there's not really any reason for him to stop wanting to believe that most things on the island have happened to him for a reason.

Originally Posted by Reed

But that is why it is called "faith", because one does not really know what, why or how - but you go do what feels right. It is a gut-feeling I think you are referring to, like an instinct which is based on a strong faith. Locke obviously found this easier [than others] because he needed a purpose in life. A mid-life crisis gone very bad, in a sense.

Thank you

Yes, a gut-feeling - supported by faith that it's the right thing to follow - was pretty much what I was trying to say! Most of the time your instinct is correct I think and you have the urge to follow it, but there are always reasons to doubt and to question it which tend to appear pretty mcuh straight away, but because Locke is so desperate for a grand purpose to his life and scared of doubting the island less it take away his legs again or something that he finds it easier to brush away the doubts and queries that often follow a thought/decision we make on instinct alone.

You're welcome

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Kiowa Warrior

It's always good to put out theories or expland upon existing ones...I'm sure Roco put forward a theory a while ago that Locke was an original porduct of the island, but my memory isn't that great so I could be wrong on that score, lol.

Yeah if Dharma did have a hand in creating Locke on-island why then would be be sent away...perhaps it was to see if one of their creations - or traits he housed that they had specifically created - could survive in the real world, or would produce a marked (and superior) difference to the person they affected. Or perhaps Locke was never meant to leave the island, but a Dharma traitor somehow managed to free him from the island. But saying all that I don't really support those theories, but they certainly are interesting to speculate upon!

Yes definately: Locke wanted a purpose for his life long before he crashed onto the island, and probably by repeatedly saying to himself that there was more to his life than permanent wheelchair confinement he truly came to believe in it, even though on the surface it seems highly unlikely. Sort of like a survival mechanism, becuase if he didn't hang onto the belief (which eventually strengthened and arguably still blinds him to this day), he may well have ended up suffering from depression again. And when he crashed onto the island his mentality of 'there's more for me than what I've got' was fully cemented for him, and there's not really any reason for him to stop wanting to believe that most things on the island have happened to him for a reason.

I agree. I *think* I recall KoR-evo mentioning it but I am not 100% certain. Cannot remember a theory from a "Roco" but I am new, so that may explain it.

I think there are a handful of reasons as to why he left the island if indeed it was true. Perhaps those born on the island are "marked" by Fate - and upon entering the real world - "things" happen.

I remember a theory on imdb I believe it was, that said the babies on the island are dying because they ALREADY exist - i.e. the Survivors. If Locke was indeed an "island baby", maybe Dharma were seeing whether Fate would being him back. Very unlikely assumptions here though.

I would definitely bet on Dharma producing traitors, those who did not believe in their objectives on the island. Perhaps Locke would have been subject to experiments and he was snuck off the island.

Yes I too do not support them but I like to discuss them nonetheless.

I think his waking up without paralysis would be enough to prevent any depression from setting in again. I think Locke is one of few people who would actually take steps to find their Destiny [and greater purpose], which we saw in "Walkabout" and the S1 Pilot onwards. I think the majority of people go about their lives without seeking a greater purpose. Many just drift along in a sailboat without paddles whereas Locke is using paddles to guide himself.

I think a huge factor in Locke setting off for a Destiny on the island is his love for the outdoors. Had they crashed in an area other than an island I do not think we would see the same John Locke.

Originally Posted by Kiowa Warrior

Yes, a gut-feeling - supported by faith that it's the right thing to follow - was pretty much what I was trying to say! Most of the time your instinct is correct I think and you have the urge to follow it, but there are always reasons to doubt and to question it which tend to appear pretty mcuh straight away, but because Locke is so desperate for a grand purpose to his life and scared of doubting the island less it take away his legs again or something that he finds it easier to brush away the doubts and queries that often follow a thought/decision we make on instinct alone.

You're welcome

Oh I see, well we got there eventually Well I am sure it was Locke's "instinct" to find his father and look where that got him. I suppose it could be argued "that" got him on the island, but obviously in the short term it ruined his life. Instincts are not always correct.

Interesting though, when he lost his faith in S2, the island did NOT take away his legs. The island only took his legs away because a force on the island did not want him to discover the Pearl. Yes I agree that he does block out the doubts and takes chances based on it "feeling" right.

[Kiowa Warrior]

Originally Posted by Reed

I agree. I *think* I recall KoR-evo mentioning it but I am not 100% certain. Cannot remember a theory from a "Roco" but I am new, so that may explain it.

I think there are a handful of reasons as to why he left the island if indeed it was true. Perhaps those born on the island are "marked" by Fate - and upon entering the real world - "things" happen.

I remember a theory on imdb I believe it was, that said the babies on the island are dying because they ALREADY exist - i.e. the Survivors. If Locke was indeed an "island baby", maybe Dharma were seeing whether Fate would being him back. Very unlikely assumptions here though.

I would definitely bet on Dharma producing traitors, those who did not believe in their objectives on the island. Perhaps Locke would have been subject to experiments and he was snuck off the island.

Yes I too do not support them but I like to discuss them nonetheless.

I think his waking up without paralysis would be enough to prevent any depression from setting in again. I think Locke is one of few people who would actually take steps to find their Destiny [and greater purpose], which we saw in "Walkabout" and the S1 Pilot onwards. I think the majority of people go about their lives without seeking a greater purpose. Many just drift along in a sailboat without paddles whereas Locke is using paddles to guide himself.

I think a huge factor in Locke setting off for a Destiny on the island is his love for the outdoors. Had they crashed in an area other than an island I do not think we would see the same John Locke.

Roco is KoR-evo's nickname, so I think we're talking about the same thing, lol.

That imdb theory is interesting, but I don't do well when it comes to understanding time travel/similar type explanations! Babies born on the island and then released - or freed - into the outside world must be marked somehow, either clearly as in a physical way, or in a less clear way like you said about Fate. Either way they would be quite unique, and living off the island would be a test for them.

I like the theory that Adam and Eve were Dharma 'traitors' who escaped Othersville because they no longer supported what Dharma was doing, and instead went to live in the jungle - possibly with Richard and his people - in order to live a more natural life.

Yes, Locke is quite unique in that he actively seeks out what his destiny could be and knows that he has to help himself before any great things can be done for him. Possibly he saw the regaining of his legs and new island life as not only the start of his destiny, but as a reward for not giving up on a greater purpose during his lower times when he was in a wheelchair, when it would have been more than easy to do so.

Yes, Locke has appeared as a lover of the outdoors since his earliest (as in timewise) flashback, Dues Ex, when he was a natural shooter during hunting sessions with Cooper. As well as regaining the use of his legs he had the perfect opportunity to live as a survivalist that not only was good for him personally, but also because his skills were essential for everyone else...he earned the respect, need and gratification of others, which is another thing he has always wanted. I reckon Locke could have used his survival techniques wherever they crash landed, but the jungle setting was the best place for him personally to land.

Originally Posted by Reed

Oh I see, well we got there eventually Well I am sure it was Locke's "instinct" to find his father and look where that got him. I suppose it could be argued "that" got him on the island, but obviously in the short term it ruined his life. Instincts are not always correct.

Interesting though, when he lost his faith in S2, the island did NOT take away his legs. The island only took his legs away because a force on the island did not want him to discover the Pearl. Yes I agree that he does block out the doubts and takes chances based on it "feeling" right.

Yes eventually, lol. Yeah it's a shame that Locke didn't listen to his private investigator's advice that 'this may seem like it's meant to happen but usually it isn't,' and instead he went in search of Cooper. He thought that it was Fate that had brought them together, when it was a cruel kind of fate and planning that actually did. I love Locke's open mindedness and heartfelt belief that he is destined for greater purposes and wouldn't want him to change, but it is painful to see his beliefs blind him and bring him great pain at times.

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Kiowa Warrior

Roco is KoR-evo's nickname, so I think we're talking about the same thing, lol.

That imdb theory is interesting, but I don't do well when it comes to understanding time travel/similar type explanations! Babies born on the island and then released - or freed - into the outside world must be marked somehow, either clearly as in a physical way, or in a less clear way like you said about Fate. Either way they would be quite unique, and living off the island would be a test for them.

I like the theory that Adam and Eve were Dharma 'traitors' who escaped Othersville because they no longer supported what Dharma was doing, and instead went to live in the jungle - possibly with Richard and his people - in order to live a more natural life.

Yes, Locke is quite unique in that he actively seeks out what his destiny could be and knows that he has to help himself before any great things can be done for him. Possibly he saw the regaining of his legs and new island life as not only the start of his destiny, but as a reward for not giving up on a greater purpose during his lower times when he was in a wheelchair, when it would have been more than easy to do so.

Yes, Locke has appeared as a lover of the outdoors since his earliest (as in timewise) flashback, Dues Ex, when he was a natural shooter during hunting sessions with Cooper. As well as regaining the use of his legs he had the perfect opportunity to live as a survivalist that not only was good for him personally, but also because his skills were essential for everyone else...he earned the respect, need and gratification of others, which is another thing he has always wanted. I reckon Locke could have used his survival techniques wherever they crash landed, but the jungle setting was the best place for him personally to land.

Oh, well that clears that up then

It may have been on youtube come to think of it, however the poster did not support the theory in any way though it is still interesting. I try my best regarding the time-travel issues because it TRULY fascinates me so I expend lots of time in thinking about it. I think even in light of trying to make sense of episodes such as Desmonds', it is usually VERY difficult trying to come to any sort of conclusion but I enjoy it nonetheless.

Well we know Jules was marked physically but I would like to discover people being marked "spiritually" for example. Perhaps if Locke was born on the island, this could explain his aweful badluck in the real world. Or perhaps we could simply put it down to plain bad luck.

I like the sounds of that "Adam & Eve" theory. It must have been pretty difficult for a traitor to leave Othersville though. First making an escape through the fence and THEN convincing the Hostiles you are not a spy. It is interesting that they were not buried, it seems they were special/high ranking Hostiles.

I suppose the few that believe they have a Destiny do not make enough effort to realise it. I think when good [or great] things happen to us we like to capitalise on them - as did Locke. I think Locke did seem to give up on life. He looked a shell of a man in his dingy flat, had given up on his councelling lessons, had no job and was eating food out of a can.

But to his credit he carried on living and found a purpose in life through the Walkabout. He found himself a Destiny, whilst holding down a job, found a girlfriend and made something of his life.

Ahh yes I was only thinking as far back as the Walkabout, of course there was his flashback with Eddie and hunting with Cooper. I always seemed to assume he began his research on the outdoors whilst in a wheelchair. However I suppose it was something he studied and grew to love over time. But yes, awakening on the island with the use of his legs filled the man with excitement, joy, faith and a new lease of life.

Yes I would agree that his being needed [and possibly acceptance] by the Survivors only fuelled his outdoor activities on the island - in turn his Lost journey. As you say, the jungle was an ideal location given his knowledge of surviving in one.

Originally Posted by Kiowa Warrior

Yes eventually, lol. Yeah it's a shame that Locke didn't listen to his private investigator's advice that 'this may seem like it's meant to happen but usually it isn't,' and instead he went in search of Cooper. He thought that it was Fate that had brought them together, when it was a cruel kind of fate and planning that actually did. I love Locke's open mindedness and heartfelt belief that he is destined for greater purposes and wouldn't want him to change, but it is painful to see his beliefs blind him and bring him great pain at times.

But for all his troubles I am sure Locke would not change a thing re: meeting Cooper, being paralysed and depressed - because it led him to the island. But island aside, yes it is sad what befell Locke because he chose to find Cooper. It ruined his life.

I suppose we all would want to find our real father if we had been in Locke's shoes. I think we could all learn from Locke - learn to take "leaps of faith". Of course Locke has had such bad luck because of the unique circumstances at hand - and of course to make a compelling tv show.

To his credit, Locke regained his faith and is now back on track. It nearly cost the lives on 3 other men [re: the Swan implosion] but he picked up the pieces and moved on [to find Eko].