4 8 15 16 23 42 - The Numbers

[Reed]

This is not so much a theory but a stab at trying to develop one. Again it is an old issue as with my other theories but S1 was so long ago I feel with our S3 knowledge we could develop new ideas.

I watched "Numbers" today and thought about a few things.

Leonard and Sam heard the "numbers transmission" 16 years ago, while Danielle also crashed 16 years ago in search of where the numbers were being broadcast from. After months or years listening for transmissions out at sea, why did Sam and Leonard SUDDENLY happen to hear the numbers transmission? Who on the island broadcast them and for what reason?

I was not aware that an Army have listening posts out at Sea, and from the way Sam's wife spoke to Hurley about the listening post, she seem to insinuate they were on the listen for something SPECIFIC. But what? Did Sam and Leonard work for Naomi's people perhaps? Did Kelvin know Sam and Leonard or atleast work for the same division/company?

3 weeks passed before Danielle and her team found the Radio Tower. She turned the numbers transmission off in place of her distress call once her team were dead. It would seem the numbers transmission was purposefully left ON for the long term. But by turning off the numbers transmission what happened as a result and why did no one -in 16 years - visit the Radio Tower to turn Danielle's transmission off and turn back on the numbers transmission? Perhaps the transmission's "use" expired and they were left on for convenience or perhaps Dharma were not able to re-visit the Radio Tower because of the Hostiles.

Are the numbers used to open a portal to the island, or do they affect Fate? Sam and Hurley's goodluck followed by badluck was affected by the numbers. Danielle's Fate was changed upon hearing them, while they drove Leonard mentally unstable. Speaking of which, did the numbers REALLY affect Leonard or did he drive himself insane? I ask this because he did not use the numbers for personal gain.

Leonard said Hurley "opened the box" by using the numbers and "it" won't stop until Hurley gets "far, far away" from them. What does getting "far, far away" from them accomplish? What box was Leonard referring to? The Box of Time-Space?, The Box of Fate/Destiny? The fact Leonard even knows of such a box leads me to believe he was not out at Sea listening for random transmissions. He is in the know about the numbers and their origin/purpose.

I do not think the numbers are a dead issue because they were so fundamental to S1 and S2.

[E Pluribus Unum]

It's been suggested/theorized that Leonard was perhaps a Swan hatch occupant; living down there by oneself could, I imagine, drive you a little do-lally and it would explain where he got the numbers from. Of course, it doesn't explain why they have the supposed power they do; though I would argue that since arriving on the Island - the supposed location of the numbers - Hurley hasn't had any bad luck; not the kind of freak events that were happening pre-island (meteors falling on buildings)

16 (+) years ago. I presume this was before Dharma were 'removed' from the Island. So that would suggest that they were still in control of the Radio Tower; so then the question becomes, what did Dharma want to do with the numbers (anyone who knows about the Lost Experience - I suppose it could be related to those experiments.) Maybe the Radio Towers main function was to transmit the numbers and to observe its results?

The numbers have been explained via the Lost Experience. I don't like the fact it's been done that way as it points towards the writers ignoring them thereafter on the show, but it's still worth a look - and very interesting. Apparently it's all canon too - which I suppose is what annoys me the most; it should have been done/explained on the show..

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by EPU

The numbers have been explained via the Lost Experience. I don't like the fact it's been done that way as it points towards the writers ignoring them thereafter on the show, but it's still worth a look - and very interesting. Apparently it's all canon too - which I suppose is what annoys me the most; it should have been done/explained on the show..

Yes, that annoys me too, not least because it was the first thing mentioned on the Lostpedia entry for the numbers when I looked at it several months ago... I certainly feel as though I've been spoiled, though if it turns out that's the only way to get an answer that's never actually going to be revealed in the show, I shan't be best pleased about that either....

[Matt Gogi]

Originally Posted by Reed

Are the numbers used to open a portal to the island

Leonard said Hurley "opened the box"

I'd never linked that before... I think this "box", is the island. "We're trapped in a bloody snowglobe"... snowglobe/box... The numbers are like the key... needed to get in, but what about getting out...

[Reed]

Originally Posted by E PLURIBUS UNUM

It's been suggested/theorized that Leonard was perhaps a Swan hatch occupant; living down there by oneself could, I imagine, drive you a little do-lally and it would explain where he got the numbers from. Of course, it doesn't explain why they have the supposed power they do; though I would argue that since arriving on the Island - the supposed location of the numbers - Hurley hasn't had any bad luck; not the kind of freak events that were happening pre-island (meteors falling on buildings)

16 (+) years ago. I presume this was before Dharma were 'removed' from the Island. So that would suggest that they were still in control of the Radio Tower; so then the question becomes, what did Dharma want to do with the numbers (anyone who knows about the Lost Experience - I suppose it could be related to those experiments.) Maybe the Radio Towers main function was to transmit the numbers and to observe its results?

The numbers have been explained via the Lost Experience. I don't like the fact it's been done that way as it points towards the writers ignoring them thereafter on the show, but it's still worth a look - and very interesting. Apparently it's all canon too - which I suppose is what annoys me the most; it should have been done/explained on the show..

You mean he served in the hatch post Army? I am skeptical of this, although very interesting, I do not think anyone really leaves the island and do not see how Leonard ever left. Well I never did read the Lost Experience explanation so my ideas about the numbers are probably defunct. Yes Hurley has not had bad luck on the island but I was referring to pre-crash.

Well even 16 years ago the Hostiles are Dharma were most likely already in fued with one another. Which "experiments" are you referring to? What was the explanation given for the numbers? Perhaps transmitting them allowed the numbers to change "things".

I too do not like that such a big part of S1/2 has been given away that way. It is VERY annoying. I really hope that the numbers are brought back into the show in some fashion. "Canon"?, by this do you mean it is done and dusted? Why they reserved the numbers explanation for a NON-profit making Lost Experience is beyond me. Surely it would have made viewers enjoy Lost more with several episodes revolving around the numbers' revelation.

Originally Posted by Matt

I'd never linked that before... I think this "box", is the island. "We're trapped in a bloody snowglobe"... snowglobe/box... The numbers are like the key... needed to get in, but what about getting out...

The "Box" COULD be the island yes but I think the Box is not physical myself. I do not think using the numbers opened the island up, because we know Danielle crashed onto the island before Hurley won the lottery. While I would have a guess and say Desmond also crashed before Hurley won it. I think the box could be referring to individual bad luck - Hurley opened his own box of evil.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by Reed

"Canon"?, by this do you mean it is done and dusted? Why they reserved the numbers explanation for a NON-profit making Lost Experience is beyond me. Surely it would have made viewers enjoy Lost more with several episodes revolving around the numbers' revelation.

I mean that, it's been explained outside of the show, but the producers have said that everything covered by the Lost Experience is true to the reality of Lost; it's not an alternative or fictional explanation.

What I think happened is, the numbers took on a world of their own. They were, in my opinion, little more than "easter eggs" and a plot device to promote the "we are all connected" idea. I don't think they are (or were) as important as we initial felt/feel; I think the writers panicked and thus explained it via the Lost Experience so to cover their behinds.

[Reed]

Originally Posted by E PLURIBUS UNUM

I mean that, it's been explained outside of the show, but the producers have said that everything covered by the Lost Experience is true to the reality of Lost; it's not an alternative or fictional explanation.

What I think happened is, the numbers took on a world of their own. They were, in my opinion, little more than "easter eggs" and a plot device to promote the "we are all connected" idea. I don't think they are (or were) as important as we initial felt/feel; I think the writers panicked and thus explained it via the Lost Experience so to cover their behinds.

Oh I see. Yes I would imagine it would have related to the tv, as everything I ever read about the L.E indicated everything would fit in nicely with the events on tv.

Is that what was explained on the L.E? I would not have thought the reasoning was as basic as using them for the connections because the connections in themselves are very mysterious.

It is interesting they gave the numbers so much emphasis - especially with Hurley - to not give us answers regarding them. What did explained in the L.E could surely have been incorporated into the tv show.

[hundredand8]

Lost Experience as far as I have read only covers what the numbers meant to Dharma.

The real mystery to us viewers is how Hurley came to be on the island (the ultimate source of his numbers), and why the numbers keep popping up in all kinds of places. And its not like in "23" where Jim Careys character is able to convert anything into 23. They are just there, plain for all to see, just like the cross overs.

This still needs explaining, somehow, and I hope its done on the show proper.

[Reed]

Originally Posted by hundredand8

Lost Experience as far as I have read only covers what the numbers meant to Dharma.

The real mystery to us viewers is how Hurley came to be on the island (the ultimate source of his numbers), and why the numbers keep popping up in all kinds of places. And its not like in "23" where Jim Careys character is able to convert anything into 23. They are just there, plain for all to see, just like the cross overs.

This still needs explaining, somehow, and I hope its done on the show proper.

That is intriguing because it gives us hope they will be covered in the show. The numbers - for me - are what made S1 so very mysterious. Or atleast it moved the show a few notches upon the Mystery Scale.

I mentioned in another thread that the numbers could be "co-ordinates" to the Time-Space Continuum. What EXACTLY that means I am not sure but I would love to discuss it. It could help explain why the Survivors are connected and why the numbers have appeared SO very much. Imo, the numbers are somehow linked with Fate/Destiny.

I have seen The Number 23 and it did very much remind me of Lost's numbers.

I still feel there is great significance to the Lost numbers but why they were chosen to control electromagnetism "leak" via the Swan computer is parculiar.

Perhaps the incident involved Fate/Destiny - something the island plays a role in imo - and in turn the numbers were used because they control/change "things". I think there is more to the electromagnetism than meets the eye. We know that the power of this electromagnetism is GREAT, so great it plays a role in "time and space"?