Time is not Linear..Hence it can be LOST

[D-Roc]

Time to update my thoughts before I see the season 4 finale.

This theory currently holds firm - the idea that time is not linear as we often 'perceive' it to be.

Daniel's payload in episode 3 (I think) of season 4 helped to illustrate this notion. As did Doctor Ray washing up dead on the island long before Martin Keamy had slit his throat and killed him.

Interesting observation. Note how Doctor Ray's dead body was able (allowed?) to propagate towards the island, yet the freighter is simply unable to find it's exact location - even Naomi wasn't sure that she'd reach the island, yet a 'dead' body is seemingly allowed access. No coincidence considering the role sprits and manifestations play in this show.

Desmond's time-travelling in The Constant was another demonstration of time not bieng linear - Des was in two places at once..or rather his conscious perception was.

It begs the question of where we go when we dream - a device brought back into play recently with Ben's "I used to have dreams" as locke had received another crumb from the island. The consciousness can exist in two, if not more, places at one time - this further suggests that time on Lost is not one direction nor one sequence nor one thing..time on Lost is simply un/conscious perception.

Add to this the possibility that Locke has lived this life many times, as indicated in Cabin Fever with Alpert's "Which of these belongs to you already", suggesting that Locke had already existed in some form before (although I do accept the reincarnation theory - which can also tie-in to this notion).

so with the passing of time - as if time actually passes. It doesn't we perceive it's relative length depending on many things including variables which we all perceive differently (hence the value of clocks, the central bank of human time) - comes diminishing memory. Displayed possibly by young Locke (Cabin Fever) who couldn't remember which item was his already, and the likes of Desmond after his time travelling in The Constant. Oh, and we shouldn't forget Faraday - his is very much about of the 'time' element of the show.

I want to begin bringing the flash-forwards into this at somepoint, as I think they're a device which could further corroborate the notions described and presented in this theory.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

The consciousness can exist in two, if not more, places at one time - this further suggests that time on Lost is not one direction nor one sequence nor one thing..time on Lost is simply un/conscious perception.

I think this also supports the notion of different entry/exit points (lets call them "bearings") propelling people/objects to different points in time relative to the island's constant time. Heh..which begs the question of whether or not the islands constant time (i.e. time from the perspective of the island..and not the individuals on it) is constant..? Constantly moving maybe..but constant? Hmm..

So only bearing 325 (or is it 305?) maintains the relative entry/exit time..any other entry/exit points exit on a worm-hole kinda portal..each 'hole' (bearing) having different time-properties..

I wonder what impact the moving of the island (4.14) has on these "bearings". That said, has the island even been moved..or the bearings rotated and the wormhole expanded so that the island doesn't appear to be where it was?

I don't believe that per se, but worth recording for future reference.

[D-Roc]

I want to advance this theory abit further now that season 4 is over.

My view that time on on the island (if not time itself) is not linear is one that I still believe to be in play. The season 4 finale through more support my way when Benjamin Linus gave us the shows first tangible space-time travel. It wasn't simply his consciousness that travelled forward in time and space, but everything - his body, memories, thoughts, feelings. Interestingly the thing which took the longest time to catch-up with his journey was the liquid from his stomach.

Anyway, so we have Ben literally ben-ding time..jumping from one time and space to another. The S. Pacific to Tunisia, 10 months on from him turning the wheel.

What interests me is what exactly happens to a person when they jump 10 months into the future withouth actually experiecing those 10 months. Indeed, this alone proves that time is not linear, if it was Ben would have to have experienced those 10 months..instead the last thing he remembers, the last thing he did, was to turn the wheel and wish Jacob 'happiness'. The only other thing I can compare this with is to be asleep for 10 months..or rather, to be comatose for 10 months and then wake up in a different location. Which, is on a basic level what happened to Desmond when his consciousness time-travelled back to his past.

So we've further established that time isn't linear..it's not a straight line, seeing as in this lastest evidence Ben literally 'LOST time' (10 months) which he neither experienced or lived through. In effect, this is evidence of wormholes - a short-cut through time and space. In order to take such a short-cut, time cannot be only linear..time can effectively fold..at least from the point of view of the 'traveller'.

With that said, I also want to throw another idea into the mix. One borne from my investigation into the Fibonnaci sequence:

SPIRALS

spirals, are seen in everything..seashells, galaxies, plants, staircases..



..what about TIME?

My pet theory is that time is on a loop. Events and lives repeat, hence why the caution of individuals doing what they are "supposed to do", because they either didn it last time around, or perhaps they didn't make the right choice last time around and so they need to make alternative choices in 'this' iteration - this may particularly be the case with the Alpert/Locke Cabin Fever scene, where Locke appeared to chose the wrong iem, despite the knife representing the "hunter" in him - the very thing that the island (via Eko) told him he was.

That said, I am also considering the possibility of time being part of a SPIRAL..and not (necessarily) a LOOP. Look at this picture:



Imagine this picture represents time itself..we can see that time 'comes back around' but it is not necessarily fated to repeat itself..witin the outwardly developing spiral (time) we can see that there is scope for growth..for change..for evolutition. Although the spiral (time) nearly loops into one set circle, instead it grows outwards, driven by the past spirals in much the same way that the Fibonnaci sequence derives the sum of the past two numbers - 1+1=2...1+2=3..2+3=5..3+5=8..5+8=13..and so on.

Also within the spiral we can see how it would be possible for Ben to jump from one point on the spiral, to another - i.e. travelling through time and space.

But why stop there..if one spiral represents one time..what can we deduce from the possibility of multiple spirals:


..is it possible to jump from one spiral (time..or universe, if you will)..to one which resides parallel? And what if the spirals interconnect, like the ones in the picture above..does this merge the spiral and loop theories together....?

[Toby]

Love it KoR!

Hmm...

Lets not stop at ben though. What about the hatch? The same big glowing light came eminating when the failsafe key turned. What if, Doing that made the hatch jump on the spiral, meaning its still intact so that it can keep saving the world with Locke, Eko and Dessmond within, but also like the rabbit and as you were saying with conciousness they are also here and now on the island, appearing in the jungle after the supposed "implosion" which was imo a time travel.

So, that explains season 2 and the hatch, with the numbers being made by dharma to be the constant if the island time travelled. Thats why they are everywhere in the show.

hmmm

[D-Roc]

Cheers Toby, i'll come back to this soon - I have a few ideas on your post

[Toby]

Cheers Toby, i'll come back to this soon - I have a few ideas on your post

Cant wait to see your angle on it Roco!

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Toby

Love it KoR!

Hmm...

Lets not stop at ben though. What about the hatch? The same big glowing light came eminating when the failsafe key turned. What if, Doing that made the hatch jump on the spiral, meaning its still intact so that it can keep saving the world with Locke, Eko and Dessmond within, but also like the rabbit and as you were saying with conciousness they are also here and now on the island, appearing in the jungle after the supposed "implosion" which was imo a time travel.

So, that explains season 2 and the hatch, with the numbers being made by dharma to be the constant if the island time travelled. Thats why they are everywhere in the show.

hmmm

The numbers..like breadcrumbs for Hansel and Gretal (aka The D.I) to find their way home?

Facinating!

Numbers are (some believe) the building blocks of life, the God of science, the science of God. They are all and one, they represent systems..THE system, from which patterns emerge. Humans attribute patterns in every system in order to rationalise, to reason to understand, even where there is nothing to understandable.

With this in mind and your suggestion at heart, could the hatch still exist..not in another time and space, but in THE time and space!? The spirals are one, they represent different iterations, but they are one gigantic system.

choas over order, order from chaos. It's a matter of perspective.

Are we the only iterations of ourselves..have we been here before, will we be here again, will this be the last time we shall conversate? If so, see you in another life brother..or should that be, the other side?

[D-Roc]

I just had a crazy notion and felt compelled to write it down before time erased my memory.

It struck me that LOST is only 5 months away from returning..this feeling of waiting for the new season to come back around is strikingly similar to the feeling that I had the same time last year, when we were all waiting for season 4. It's almost a feeling of dejavu..as if waiting for the upcoming season of Lost is set on a 'loop', one that we follow year after year, unable to change the course of time..BUT our experiences within each loop (hiatus period) is slightly different: Our knowledge of the show increases, the bond we have with our favourite characters strengthen or weaken, the nature of the ARG's change etc etc..basically all of our experiences in each hiatus-loop differ from the last. The only 'constant' (if you will) is that of 'time'..to be precise, "Lost Time".

With that in mind, the same premise could be translated over to the show itself, in that if time loops do exist, they could exist with the characters ability have different experiences in each lifetime (or loop), whether they know it or not. The one constant could be the loop itself, but the knowledge, experiences and awareness may grow, allowing each character a head-start for the next 'loop' or iteration of events IF they can remember what happened in their past loop/s.

Is this how Ben appears to know so much? Has he found a way to consciously accumulate his knowledge and experiences from 'past loops'? This would still leave him open to error and lack of judgement (i.e. Alex/Keamy) as not all of the previous loops' experiences will be remembered, and indeed they may be slightly different, hence the importance of choice in each iteration.

Just a wacky thought that I wanted to jot down, i'll prolly come back to this at some point to give it a bit of gloss.

[D-Roc]

I hope to update this in 2009.