Time is not Linear..Hence it can be LOST

[Reed]

VERY interesting points there.

I will reply to this later but Malion made a good spot in another thread. Apparantly on the back of Hurley's ["Walt's"] comic book in Season 1, a game was advertised "in which the player has the ability to slow down or speed up the flow of time at will".

I think we have enough evidence to pretty much confirm time is not as it seems on the island. Well I suppose some would say that goes without saying due to the time travel business.

[Reed]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo

After rewatching most of S3 I am even more certain that time has been ;LOST' on the island. It's almost as if time is passing at a rapid rate (hence the quick healing) yet for some this increased time rate doesn't affect them in terms of age (Alpert). It's almost like there exists portals or pockets of different time loops which all effect different people in their own way.

FOr exmaple, we have Alpert who doesn't appeared to have aged a day since the 1980's - he also appears in great physical condition.

Yet we also have the 26 y/o woman with the 70 year old womb - her insides had been ravaged by time..by the island's increased rate of time (why wasn't she preserved like Alpert?)

Then was also have the likes of Locke, those with a deep communion to the island, those who heal at extremely rapid rates yet still age at a normal rate.

We also have everyone else..who also benefits from the island's healing ability (i.e. Naomi) - which would suggest that time on the island passess at a fast rate, although they age at the normal rate.

Let's not forget Jacob - who appears unable to fully 'exist' in 'one' place at any given time.

So it would appear that time on the island is skewed..it's like there are loops of time which are conflicting with one another.

We also have evidence of this time anomally:

Alpert (to Juliet in 3.07): "You'd be amazed at how time flies (on the island)"

Mikhail (to Charlie in 3.17): "Wounds are different on this island" (Speaking of his estimation of a "day and a half" for Naomi's lung puncture to heal.

I would also submit that time has passed by at a quicker rate in season 3 than it did in past seasons (Locke's hand healing extremely quickly after Anthony bit him, Naomi's lung healing in a day for goodness sake).it's almost as if fate knows that trouble is coming to the island and the island's lifespan is passing by at a shockingly fast rate - like a fast heartbeat when one is scared or frightened.

Has time changed on the island? Is it going by faster now than it was in S1 or S2?

I'll come back to this soon.

Very interesting comments KoR-evo.

I recall an observation a long time ago that things are inconsistencies on the Island, but while some say it is producer/director errors, it is actually because "everything changes" on the island. Several "alternate dimensions" existing in one place or something to that affect.

I always thought the quick healing was because the Island was an energy hotspot - as Rose's "healer" mentioned. But as you mentioned, "several time loops/portals" is very likely imo.

Regarding Alpert, perhaps in the outside world he does not age? However that is parculiar if he is an descendent of pirates and/or slave owners.

Re: the woman on the Island, either time is destroying their wombs or the Island does not want anymore people on it - maybe it wants to be left alone. It experienced Dharma destroying it and wanted to stop this. For all we know, Alpert is also infertile as the women are.

Perhaps the Island likes Locke and heals him faster? Did Sawyer's gunshot wound take a little too long to heal in your opnion? Perhaps the Island does not like Sawyer?

I think perhaps time is not healing people because even time is a poor healer of things - more specifically physical wounds. People are healing so well, that I think as I said earlier the Island specialises in "regeneration". However I would never rule out time is also a factor here.

A "skewed" explanation would explain everything nicely I feel. Ever noticed how night seems to fall rather TOO quickly in some episodes. People often take no time at all to reach destinations, while taking longer at other times.

To support your several "loop theory", did you ever hear about a theory that the Survivors are re-living their lives, but differently? An example of this is Charlie being the Designer/Scientist who programmed The Looking Glass. There were more examples, however I forget.

I like the idea that time is even faster NOW than it has been. Perhaps the Island is going to die soon and we are moving toward a Grand Finale? It would be something if the Island knew danger was coming and was reacting to this.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Reed

Very interesting comments KoR-evo.

I recall an observation a long time ago that things are inconsistencies on the Island, but while some say it is producer/director errors, it is actually because "everything changes" on the island. Several "alternate dimensions" existing in one place or something to that affect.

I always thought the quick healing was because the Island was an energy hotspot - as Rose's "healer" mentioned. But as you mentioned, "several time loops/portals" is very likely imo.

Regarding Alpert, perhaps in the outside world he does not age? However that is parculiar if he is an descendent of pirates and/or slave owners.

Re: the woman on the Island, either time is destroying their wombs or the Island does not want anymore people on it - maybe it wants to be left alone. It experienced Dharma destroying it and wanted to stop this. For all we know, Alpert is also infertile as the women are.

Perhaps the Island likes Locke and heals him faster? Did Sawyer's gunshot wound take a little too long to heal in your opnion? Perhaps the Island does not like Sawyer?

I think perhaps time is not healing people because even time is a poor healer of things - more specifically physical wounds. People are healing so well, that I think as I said earlier the Island specialises in "regeneration". However I would never rule out time is also a factor here.

A "skewed" explanation would explain everything nicely I feel. Ever noticed how night seems to fall rather TOO quickly in some episodes. People often take no time at all to reach destinations, while taking longer at other times.

To support your several "loop theory", did you ever hear about a theory that the Survivors are re-living their lives, but differently? An example of this is Charlie being the Designer/Scientist who programmed The Looking Glass. There were more examples, however I forget.

I like the idea that time is even faster NOW than it has been. Perhaps the Island is going to die soon and we are moving toward a Grand Finale? It would be something if the Island knew danger was coming and was reacting to this.

Cheers -

Yes, it seems possible that many of the 'inconsistencies' could actually be intentional - an attempt to subtly point towards the idea that FREEWILL (see "Magic Box" metaphor) can alter events that have already past in another loop, or events that are yet to be. If we look at time as non linear it certainly opens up a whole plethora of possibilities.

I do still subscribe to the idea that the islands special 'properties' (which, as you say, Isaac forshadowed in 'SOS') is the thing that heals the island residents. I'm fairly certain that this is the case as we already know that the island has special electormagnetic properties and possibly other properties (properties which facilitate time-travel, for instance?). But yes, the idea that time on the island is different, does also offer the possibility that it is this which expediates healing - whether this could stand alone from the 'island properties' theory i'm unsure, but it probably could be used as an alternate idea, since it suggests that it is 'time' and not necesarily the 'island' which looks after the healing. Though time and the island could also be argued to be one in the same thing - i.e. not independent of each other.

Interesting - or perhaps Alpert 'does' age when he's off the island, and not the other way around? I think that would be more likely cos I would assume he has spent most of his time on the island? Though I guess it could also work the other way around too. Yes, I think Alpert could well be a decendent of the Black Rockers - whether he was a slave or a pirate is unclear, but I do find it interesting that he had a holster and a gun when he first met young Ben. Did he get this from Dharma? If not, can we use this to verify how long he had been on the island for prior to meeting Ben?

It's a real mystery isn't it - You're quite right, it could be that the island is intentionally causing these women to have fertility problems? This would however make Alpert, and possibly Jacob's, objectives clash with the island? Although Alpert did call it a "novlety", so perhaps not. I think the most likely possibility is that Dharma did something using the island's properties - perhaps they tried to change time/history - and they ended up causing a rift in the island's property that deals with time. I see the island as an organic 'computer' - as a result if people were to maliciously or clumsly tamper with the islands properties, they could well cause the source to become damaged - just like if a computer were to get a 'virus'. Virus = the sickness? Though it makes me wonder with the island has metaphorical 'Norton Anti-Virus' software installed to help combat the effects - perhaps the losties are the anti-virus (esp Locke) and the BS is the Firewall? Bit of a tangent there, but yeah, I think that Dharma did something they shouldn't have - the buttons, numbers and the purging seems to suggest so.

I do think that the island likes Locke - I believe that it sees Locke as the most likely one to help it, a bit like Eddie and the Cops believed he was likely for coersion. I just hope that the islands agenda is inkeeping with Locke's own person expectations - that is, I hope he doesn't get conned. I think for Locke to ultimately accept the island, the island will have to be a force which is GOD-like, if not GOD himself, although Ben's "God can't see this island", would suggest that the island is a seperate entity from God..which makes this really interesting because it brings into question the islands right to 'judge' Eko and the islands right to claim "sacrifices". Basically, where does the island see itself in relation to 'God'? Above, below or equal to? That would be an interesting reveal.

I thin Sawyer's gunshot wound healed fairly quickly considering he's not Locke. I think the island was perhaps more open to the losties future paths back in S1, now I believe it is picking and choosing it's favourites more selectively, as the threat to it's safety has been heightened.

Yes, I think I know what you're suggesting here - I think it relates to one of my above points, that asks is the 'island' the healer, or is 'time' itself the healer. It would be interesting to know which of these entities is more responsible, though I now suspect it is both. The island seems to be closely affiliated with time, and may even lie on a time rift, thus fueling it's power.

Yes, the day/night symbolism is also an interesting little seed they keep planting every now and then (mostly in S1) - of course it also adds to the 'light/dark' debate, which often spill over into science/faith, which in turn have links to numbers ('the' numbers, Bible passages, maths=science) and of course numbers can equate to 'time'.

Yes, that is a most interesting theory and it also struck me when Bonnie told Charlie about the Looking Glass being programmed by a musician (as you said). I think there is plenty of scope for this as you have to wonder whether this version of the losties is the only version, or whether there are different LOOPS out these where the losties are different people ("Everything changes")? Do they each get a chance at being someone else? In this 'game' of survival, do the players get to 'power up' and effect the LOOP in different ways? It could well be a bit like what Desmond said about the pieces on the box changing..

Also, would this LOOP theory (or other loop theories) advocate the line "Only fools are enslaved by time and space"? Because if the survivors are major players in the battle to save earth (or something inkeeping with that idea), they would, I assume, need to be free from the fatalistic approach depicted by the likes of Hawking. I like the Charlie example that you used, we could also throw Locke into this with his 'Farmer/Hunter' thing..

[Reed]

Will reply to this soon but there is a very interesting time concept in these S4 fan made videos I found, however I needed your permission to post them - http://www.lostcommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?tid=5936&pid=222003#pid222003 - I think you would find these videos most interesting regarding this thread's topic. I need to send you the links to evaluate them first.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Reed

Will reply to this soon but there is a very interesting time concept in these S4 fan made videos I found, however I needed your permission to post them - http://www.lostcommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?tid=5936&pid=222003#pid222003 - I think you would find these videos most interesting regarding this thread's topic. I need to send you the links to evaluate them first.

No worries, reply in your own time - I think I've still got a few posts above to reply to also. I take it you received my PM re: the above - thanks for sharing those vids, I believe they make for some interesting expansion in regards to this thread.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by charlierocks

I think time will play a big part in understanding Lost. I've tried to think of a scientific way of proving it but as I was never very good at science I know I never will.
It struck me in S1 when Shannon's Dad died, she was 18 and she was 20 when they crashed. So in just 2 years Jack managed to "fix" Sarah, marry Sarah, annoy Sarah, then get divorced by her. I know Jack can be annoying but surely it would take longer than that to get from dating to divorce. I think he seemed to be sort of over it too by the time we see him looking for Christian.
From the same flashback Desmond hadn't even gone on the boat race either. How long had be been on the island when we met him???

I agree that it was a quick turn in Jack's life, but I do think it's possible, if not likely that such a breakdown in a relationship can happen - especially when there's not that communication and common ground, which appeared to be lacking in Sarah and Jack

I'm not sure that Jack has ever gotten over Sarah leaving him - we saw in the opening episode of S3, how traumatised he was by the mere mention of her name, we saw how this was one of the core causes of the mistrust and hurt between himself and his father. I think that Sarah is a big part of the reason why Jack is the way he is - his pops said that 'commitment makes him tick' - he was right, and this is perhaps Jack's problem, in that he was/is unable to let Sarah go, because he fixed her, this made him believe in human hope (perhaps for the first time since childhood?), yet she walked out on him..and left him broken and currently beyond repair.

Had there been no Sarah, he and Christian probably would still have had problems, but I don't think they would've gotten so out of hand - Christian virtually ran away because of how his son was treating him and due to his own guilt at having 'failed' him - which ultimately led to him OD'ing and dying. Well that's how I see it, I could of course be wrong

Re: Desmond's time on the island - I believe he said that he'd been there for 3 years, but i'm sure a few of us had deciphered that he'd actually been there for 4 years...so, i'm not sure if he LOST track of time, or whether this harps back to the island's time anomolies, or whether we miscalculated and Desmond had been there for 3 years?

Originally Posted by madegurl

i think that's a great theory rocco.
one thing inparticular that leads me to believe this theory is true is the way that, in the flashforward, noone seemed to act out of the ordinary with jack. they just treated him like any other individual. so had time stopped, then they would never have known he'd been missing.

although penny looking for the island appears to be the only slip-up.

I do believe that they know he has been missing - cos that guy at the chemist called him a "hero twice over" (or something), which leads me to believe that the rest of the world knew about Oceanic, but have perhaps been fed a different cover-story from what actually happened - hence Jack's "I'm sick of lying Kate"..

Although what you said is interesting and cannot be totally ruled out just yet!

[Reed]

[quote=D-Roc;221556]"The text that you have entered is too long (14645 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long".

[p.s. I had to erase your quoting to allow this post to even work].

I apologise for writing so much but I could not help myself.

Such inconsistencies would also benefit the producers as far as unintentional ones are concerned. Okay I just looked up the Magic Box on LostPedia and feel like I have just read some spoilers because it described it as all kinds of things. Then again they might be theories - atleast I hope so. I am completely in the unknown in regard to what you said re: Magic Box/Freewill and altering events in passed loops. I simply assumed the Magic Box was a metaphor.

But the idea that the Island sits on a point where time is not straight - in turn time, days and worlds/dimensions change and collide; it really is fascinating. I feel maybe Ben has already seen ALOT of the future and it could explain some i[f not many] of his actions. Perhaps there is a rule that to change time/events in one loop, he cannot force it to happen - hence why the Others have seemingly done things more difficult - if that makes sense; [Freewill idea from S4 Fan-Made episodes].

Ever seen those magnetic bracelets that apparantly cure health problems? Interesting that the Island has [and/or had] immense electro-magnetism. Nice idea, I suppose such incredible power could open "riffs" in time. Perhaps pushing the button prevented this? Wickman spoke of an incident - did a riff/rip in time occur? Everything is fuelled by energy - the Universe in particular; I am sure the Island's energy creates things we only dream about happening.

Perhaps the Island "takes" time from the interweaving loops in time that exist and so people heal quickly because time is "multiplied" so to speak - 20 loops/dimensions crossing over into the Island means people heal 20 times quicker? Well I think the Island facilitates the time properties and in turn this creates the healing properties - it is all linked. Agreed, they are most likely dependent re: Island/Time.

I would love a 'solo' Alpert flashback. That would make more sense if Alpert aged OFF because I presume he is a descendent of the real world - pirates/slaves in fact. But why does Alpert not age while others do? Alperts old clothing and gun could indicate he is 100's of years old - but HOW is the big question. I would assume Alpert's meeting with young Ben was the first encounter between Alpert's people and Dharma. Perhaps Dharma encountered them prior to this, when they were building the Stations.

Why do you believe Jacob is invested or even knows about Ben's Fertility Program? But yes either the Island is at fault directly OR indirectly through the intense electromagetism affecting wombs perhaps? By "novelty" I take it that means it is not crucially important - or atleast I remember him referring to it as a side-project. Are you saying the rift Dharma caused affected fertility? - great theory. Perhaps the infamous incident Wickman referred to?

No doubt about it - those fools would cause irriversable damage to the Island and it's people. Perhaps ever since such tampering, the Island became hostile via it's visions - perhaps the Black Smoke was created by the Island to protect the Island - "Security System" - Danielle Rousseau. Dharma did NOT create it? How could Man ever create something so magnificant?

Another great idea re: the virus. I think the Island is angry and has said virus and has become malicious. Yes I also just thought of the Survivors, especially Locke being the cure. Perhaps the purpose/main theme of Lost is to cure the Island and in turn cure "everything" else - i.e. Man's existence? Okay now we both sound like loony toons but I think we could be onto something, or alteast it is fun theorising so intensely. I think we could all be so very angry at Dharma them moment we discover what they did.

I hope Locke does not get conned by the Island - otherwise that would be very sly of the Island. I hope Locke is rewarded. Who is to say there is NOT something greater than God? The Bible says God created EVERYTHING but personally I do not believe everything The Bible says. As you say the Island could be Godly - we already know it is not simply soil and trees. The Island's crucifixation of Eko annoyed me, but what if the Island is greater than God - if so who am I to question it's actions. Techincally the Island might not even be on Earth - bur rather just floating around the Universe.

Though Sawyer nearly died from his S1 gunshot wound - but it probably had favourites even back then. I think the Island originally did not know whom it's most valuable Survivor would be and as luck would have it, it had Locke - though it probably brought Locke to the Island via Fate. If so it makes you wonder why it brought the other Survivors to the Island. Interesting how the Island will react to the threat - if at all.

I think it would be immense if the Island sat on a time rift - I loved Desmond's "Flashes..." episode and anything similiar will satisfy me. I hope the Island is not simply a hot spot for "regeneration". But if God cannot see this Island, then how can Time even exist? Perhaps by sitting on several or 100's of rifts/loop holes, the Island has become Invisible.

If Ben was being literal then this is fascinating because God does not exist on the Island then Eko's efforts to pray were in a way, void. Though Faith is a personal mission but we all hope God hears our prayers. HOW does Ben know God cannot see the Island - did Jacob tell him? Powerful stuff.

Though if a time annomoly became obvious, would not the Survivors make mention of it in one of the episodes? I cannot really think of what the Light-Dark thing represents - Good & Evil perhaps? It is things like this that raise my expectations way TOO much - I have faith Lost will deliver and make some of us cry, jaw-dropped and in a state of shock/disbelief and happiness but I surely hope it does not disappoint.

Quite amazing that a person can relive their lives but be COMPLETELY different - Rock Star ---> Scientist. Ahh yes I forgot about that, crazy stuff actually - Charlie being both a Musician and a person intelligent enough to programme a Dharma Station. How on Earth did he manage to work for Dharma or the Others from his days jamming with Liam? It would be kind of unsettling to know that the Survivors we have invested so much time into were ONE version of many, millions even.

I wish such a thing were true - to be able to change ourselves through time and space via Loops in time. Though I feel as far as the Survivors we know, they cannot change anything - except maybe Desmond. How did Mrs. Hawking know "about" Desmond? Who gave Desmond his powers and why? Another thread on that would be great. Perhaps Jack & Kate reversed Fate and left the Island?; they somehow used loops to do this? What are you referring to re: "pieces on the box changing"?

I believe the "Only fools are enslaved by time and space" line is a crystal clear example that time travel DOES exist in Lost. We are all blind to the possibilities that exist in life or alteast have not the power to do such things. Ever since seeing those Fan-Made S4 videos - what if Ben and/or Jacob and/or the Island needs the Survivors to "save the world" but via Freewill - as perhaps it is some kind of "unwritten rule" that is necessary for anything to be changed in time and space?

I agree re: Mrs. Hawkings - clearly she is the opposing factor in our theory here - because "Everything Changes" - though who made her the High Almighty? Perhaps she is ONE of several time travellers and what she said to Desmond was her point of view? However what she said makes sense I suppose, as Desmond proved with Charlie - but perhaps via the Island [somehow] Fate can be battled and changed forever?

What do you mean in regard to Locke's Farmer/Hunter idea? Interestingly - perhaps Fate would have had Locke remain Disabled forever but his willpower changed his Destiny? Essentially Locke created a NEW path for himself - another Loop you could say, though that is saying ALL Loops exist as one. Confusing stuff.

[Reed]

Source: The Sun [2006]


SCIENTISTS have proved Santa’s epic journey to all the world’s children in one night IS possible.

Larry Silverberg, a US professor of mechanical and aerospace engineering, says he gets the job done using electromagnetic waves, computer science, nanotechnology, genetic engineering and the space-time continuum.

His journey is aided by a “relativity cloud” ? based on Einstein’s discovery that time can be stretched and space squeezed.

Dr Silverberg, of North Carolina State University, said: “Rips in time allow Santa months to deliver presents while only minutes pass on Earth.” On-board SatNav prepares a detailed route, while the sleigh is pulled by reindeer genetically bred to fly and balance on rooftops.

There are no weight problems as the toys are built only when Santa reaches each child’s home, using a nano-toymaker to create them from soot. Dr Silverberg says: “Santa’s trip is possible and based on plausible science.”

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How about that? Interesting that a completely different source other than a Lost website is reporting things we theorise about.