Lost = Hurleys AND Libbys dream (Theory)

[hundredand8]

Look, on some level Dave was right. He got discharged from hospital soon after he sent Dave away, won the lottery, had a stream of bad luck, and now Libby kisses him. Its all in his head.

On another level Libby was right. How can he have managed to dream what happened to her.

But as we now know she was a patient at the same hospital, and for all we know they may be having a collective hallucination. She looked pretty absent minded at the end there...

[D-Roc]

That would be a cool concept i must say and it perhaps isnt as far fethced a possibilty [in island terms] as it first sounds..for example, if we apply what you've just said to, say, Sawer and Kate.. when Kate saw the black horse from her past..well, wouldnt it be something if the island/Hanso.F. made both of them have the same vision..but thats all it was, just a collective vision. That wou ld be one heck of a weapon for Hanso.F to have...

Btw, i dont think the horse was or vision, nor do i think that Hurley and Libby shared a collective hallucination..i was just thinking that it is possible maybe.

[hundredand8]

Ha! At least one person thinks I'm not completly bonkers!

*swallows tranquilizers from plastic cup*

I don't know if anyone else has seen this, but there was an episode of "The Outer Limits" which was along those lines, a little bit.

Quick summary:

The show starts with a man struggling through a snowstorm. He reaches a hotel, and gets introduced to the guests. They are quite a weird bunch, been snowed in there for a while and clearly some power struggle or game is going on. OK, don't remember the details. Next day, he meets them again, they look the same but have swapped roles (mistress and wife, servants and guests etc.) and this continues for a few days.

Anyway, he wakes up and finds himself in a hospital where they just woke him up - he had been cryogenically frozen for some reason. He looks around at the other people in the cryo lab, and they are the people he just met.

So, conclusion: While crygenically frozen they communicated in their minds.

[Mantis Zero]

Ok then so what about stuff that happened to neither Hurley or Libby? They couldnt have known what happened on the raft, they would have no knowledge of Charlie and Sayid's adventure in exodus let alone the entire Henry Gale thing, what happened when Michael ran off the second time etc.

If it was all in their heads they (as in Hurley/Libby) wouldnt create such complicated back stories for characters that werent real and served no purpose to either of them. If it was a collective vision then the whole show would be pointless because none of it would have happened, and thats never going to be the case since its going to upset a lot of people because LOST isnt a two hour movie but a multi season long drama series that fans invest a lot of time in. I know I would be massively disappointed if it was all in the head of the comic relief character and his imaginary(?) girlfriend.

[D-Roc]

Personally i dont think it was all in their heads either but i think that it 'could' be done to perhaps 2 characters in a certain situation/environment. I think that the island has the 'potential' to make 2 people 'see' or experience the same thing at the same time..for instance look at when both Sayid AND Shannon saw 'Walt' in Abandoned..now this was 2 people seeing the same vision/manifestation [whatever] at the same time. I do think this was Walt's doing [with the aid of the islands natural properties] but still, im sure you get the idea... Hanso could perhaps use Walt to do this..or perhaps their science has the ability to do this anyway..or maybe the island itself has the ability to make 2 or more people see things..

Apart from the Walt sighting, i dont think this has happened yet..but i certainly think it possible..especially when we consider the above 'Walt' example..

[Mantis Zero]

Of course if the Cerberus wants to make more than one people see things its entirely possible, I just dont think it can create entire characters that can fully interact and by that I mean they cant do anything physical such as build a raft, as we saw with the coconut hurling its very possible to imagine being touched by the visions so Kate's horse (which Sawyer also saw) and Boone's Shannon would have seemed just like the real thing.

If two people see it then it makes them believe it more, so it makes you think the horse was real when it quite possibly wasnt.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Mantis Zero,Aug 24 2006, 11:29 AM

Of course if the Cerberus wants to make more than one people see things its entirely possible, I just dont think it can create entire characters that can fully interact and by that I mean they cant do anything physical such as build a raft, as we saw with the coconut hurling its very possible to imagine being touched by the visions so Kate's horse (which Sawyer also saw) and Boone's Shannon would have seemed just like the real thing.

I agree. I certainly dont think that 'it' can make entire characters who can interact in terms of raft building or stuff like that. I dont advocate 108's theory entirely...i just believe that the part about 2 or more people seeing/experiencing the same vision, is possible. When i say vision i personally am referring to things like seeing a horse..or a dead character [for example]..but i agree with you that Libby and Hurley werent 'collectively hallucinating' the things that have happened to them.

[hundredand8]

Hmm, I wouldn't actually go as far as calling it a theory myself (although I admit I put that in the title of the thread) its more like a brain wave.

Partly inspired by that episode of "The Outer Limits", partly by "Solaris" which is probably THE BEST sci-fi novel of all time, and also one of THE BEST sci-fi movies all time (both versions of it).

Collective hallucination or real world manifestation of thoughts in matter - what difference does it make? There are some deep philosophical issues about whats real and whats not. "Cogito ergo sum" and all that. And we already know the show is tapping into that topic, what with all the polar bears, black horses, miracle cures, and now Daves slipper!

Personally I would actually be disappointed if they all woke up, Matrix style, with the back of their brains wired into some kind of kompjuta. But having their mind messed with all the time by "The Island" or whatever is on it and how that affects people in the long term - I think this is probably the long term theme of the show.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by hundredand8,Aug 24 2006, 19:09 PM

Hmm, I wouldn't actually go as far as calling it a theory myself (although I admit I put that in the title of the thread) its more like a brain wave.

Partly inspired by that episode of "The Outer Limits", partly by "Solaris" which is probably THE BEST sci-fi novel of all time, and also one of THE BEST sci-fi movies all time (both versions of it).

Collective hallucination or real world manifestation of thoughts in matter - what difference does it make? There are some deep philosophical issues about whats real and whats not. "Cogito ergo sum" and all that. And we already know the show is tapping into that topic, what with all the polar bears, black horses, miracle cures, and now Daves slipper!

Personally I would actually be disappointed if they all woke up, Matrix style, with the back of their brains wired into some kind of kompjuta. But having their mind messed with all the time by "The Island" or whatever is on it and how that affects people in the long term - I think this is probably the long term theme of the show.

Arrggghhhhh, i hated that Solaris film...dont get me wrong, i like films that require thought etc but Solaris..

Personally i think there is a difference between collective hallucination and real world manifestation of thoughts in matter and that is the 'individual'...with a collective vision the individuals ability to experience something unique to them is non-existant [or less apparent] because the the experience is being controlled/shaped and the 2 or more subconcious minds are being channelled or controlled in the same/similar way.

[kirsty290182]

Originally Posted by hundredand8,Aug 23 2006, 6:47 AM

Look, on some level Dave was right. He got discharged from hospital soon after he sent Dave away, won the lottery, had a stream of bad luck, and now Libby kisses him. Its all in his head.

On another level Libby was right. How can he have managed to dream what happened to her.

But as we now know she was a patient at the same hospital, and for all we know they may be having a collective hallucination. She looked pretty absent minded at the end there...

They are good points, and Dave was very convincing, but i think that is all that it was, a good spin on things. In Hurleys mind, Dave was real for a while, until he realised he was a figment of his imagination, and Hurley turned his back on him, locked him out of his mind. Then now Hurley has seen him again (if this is Hurley having a relapse or the island etc remains to be seen) anyways, now he has seen him again "Dave" will be very pead off with him for not believing him and getting rid of him, and he will want to get even and what better way than to get in his mind again and tell him everything around him is not real and all he has to do is jump off a cliff and he will be "free"........or, as "Dave" wants...dead.
I admit, Dave was very convincing, i was even questioning it until you think, if it was Hurley imagining it, then why would he create people he has never met and make all new lives up....?

[hundredand8]

Its an old thread, but I've got a new twist on it.

While I was re-watching Series 1 I thought how strange it is that we did get songs in Series 1, with vocals, and we no longer do. And then at the end of "...in translation" the batteries in Hurleys CD player pack up, and the song we are hearing at that point stops. And thats the last song in Lost.

How is this related to Dave? Every time we were hearing a song in Series 1 we were in Hurleys head.

[D-Roc]

I cant remember, but are all of the songs in S1 from Hugo's CD player?

If they are the you 'may' have a point. It could be representative of "everythings going to change"..and we all know how much Hugo hates change..as illustrated by both episodes 2x04 and 2x18.. the cutting out of the music/battery in 1x18 could illustrate the fact that Hurley was soon to face his demons and that things would no long be fun and music for him

[hundredand8]

I know that the song "look around you, is this where you want to be" when some of them settle down in the cave and some are round the fire at the beach is from Hurleys CD player. Because I first thought its Charlie singing it (he just got his guitar back) but then realised he isn't and that Hurley has got his headphones on.

For all the other songs I'd have to go back and rewatch the whole of S1 to be sure.

"...in translation" is of the course the episode before "Numbers", so you may have a point there too.