Why the tallies were taken

[Verix]

I don't actually buy into this theory myself but i was thinking about things and it all added up.

Let's for a few moments say that the crash was in some way planned, byy Hanso or Widmore or whoever. Now at the start of S3 Ben told Goodwin to go look for the tail end saying "did you see where it landed", Goodwin replied he had and would go. However Ben seemd to tell Ethan the same thing with less importance "there may actually be surivors" - as in there may be but it's not likely. So what if the others were expecting the tallies but not our losties. It could explain why the tallies were kidnapped but not our losties. Maybe the others wanted the tallies for some reason, to do tests on etc only when they disxovered Walt and Arron did they become at all interested in them (seemingly).

Even with this theory standing, why were certain members of the tallies left? Why was Cindy not taken till the end?

[Audio Pineapple]

Maybe they were a bit worried after Eko and Ana managed to wipe out three of them and so decided only to take Cindy when they would be distracted, like getting up that cliff.

[Murgatroyd]

Interesting. That would imply that, assuming the flight list was in some sense rigged (as seems likely), the folk in the fuselage were placed there by a different group and for a quite different (and possibly contradictory) reason to the folk in the tail section - perhaps as marplots.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Verix,November 20, 2006 10:22 pm

I don't actually buy into this theory myself but i was thinking about things and it all added up.

Let's for a few moments say that the crash was in some way planned, byy Hanso or Widmore or whoever. Now at the start of S3 Ben told Goodwin to go look for the tail end saying "did you see where it landed", Goodwin replied he had and would go. However Ben seemd to tell Ethan the same thing with less importance "there may actually be surivors" - as in there may be but it's not likely. So what if the others were expecting the tallies but not our losties. It could explain why the tallies were kidnapped but not our losties. Maybe the others wanted the tallies for some reason, to do tests on etc only when they disxovered Walt and Arron did they become at all interested in them (seemingly).

Even with this theory standing, why were certain members of the tallies left? Why was Cindy not taken till the end?

I agree that the plane was crashed/designed to land on the island etc..I also agree that each of them are there for a reason..

However after seeing the spontaneous reaction of Ben and the others I tend to now think that they werent necessarily expecting anyone at that point. Dont get me wrong, I believe that they have had people 'delivered' to them before, but I dont think they were expecting these people at this specific time..

I dont think that they were expecting the tailies over the fuselagers because surely they are one in the same - I just think that Ben stressed more importance on the tail-section because he approximated that it would land in the water, hence more chance of there being survivors.

Though it is a mind trip to think that our fuselagers were in actual fact a 'bonus' for the Others, in that they believed the tailies would be the mostlikely survivors..very clever writing that.

Anyway, it's an interesting theory that you pose and you may be right..I just think that Ben's reaction can be explained by the fact that the tail-section would have a softer landing/more chance of survival.

I think this also confirms to those with any doubts that the frontend (at least) was brought down/landed by a 3rd party/force and didnt simply crash.. (well imo)..though what I find intriguing is where that 10% belief that people in the fuselage might survive came from? I mean..what made Ben believe that a fuselage crashing on hard land would contain survivors? Hmm..perhaps he believed that the Black Smoke would act as a 'safety net' for them?

[Kielbasa]

Another reason to back up the Others weren't expecting the plane crash is when Ben said to Ethan and Goodwin "I want lists".

That suggests he didn't know who was on the plane, and that they had to use his infiltrators to gather this information.

I reckon that Ethan and Goodwin were sent to observe and determine who was "good" and who was "bad". I'm pretty sure that it would have been Ethan's observations which led to the choices on Mrs Klugh hit list, and then Ben's link to the outside world got him his dossiers.

[The_abbott]

Originally Posted by Verix,November 20, 2006 09:22 pm

I don't actually buy into this theory myself but i was thinking about things and it all added up.

Let's for a few moments say that the crash was in some way planned, byy Hanso or Widmore or whoever. Now at the start of S3 Ben told Goodwin to go look for the tail end saying "did you see where it landed", Goodwin replied he had and would go. However Ben seemd to tell Ethan the same thing with less importance "there may actually be surivors" -* as in there may be but it's not likely. So what if the others were expecting the tallies but not our losties. It could explain why the tallies were kidnapped but not our losties. Maybe the others wanted the tallies for some reason, to do tests on etc only when they disxovered Walt and Arron did they become at all interested in them (seemingly).

Even with this theory standing, why were certain members of the tallies left? Why was Cindy not taken till the end?

I reckon Goodwin's plan was upended when they left the beach. This meant that he would have to gradually dispose of Eko, Nathan and Ana during the trek. WHen he died, the others took the last tallie they wanted. The original plan would have been Goodwin taking Cindy and Bernard back to other camp and then release Bernard to join Rose.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Kielbasa,November 21, 2006 10:29 am

Another reason to back up the Others weren't expecting the plane crash is when Ben said to Ethan and Goodwin "I want lists".

That suggests he didn't know who was on the plane, and that they had to use his infiltrators to gather this information.

I reckon that Ethan and Goodwin were sent to observe and determine who was "good" and who was "bad".  I'm pretty sure that it would have been Ethan's observations which led to the choices on Mrs Klugh hit list, and then Ben's link to the outside world got him his dossiers.

Yeah, I agree that they didnt know who was on the plane at that early stage - Goodwin and Ethan were indeed sent to infiltrate to acertain who was 'good' or 'bad' (note that this would be the Others own criteria of good and bad since it's all relative).

I'm not convinced whether Ethans observations led to the choices on Klughs list, since they had other means of observing them - (I presume that later on they observed via) the camera's in the hatch (which also means they mustve known about Desmond?) and they also got sent the dossiers on them. I think all of this awell as Ethans feedback helped them make up the 'list'..oh and dont forget Walt and Michaels info..

The question (so to speak) I have is WHEN did those dossiers arrive? Obviously it was AFTER the crash.. Hmm..

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by The_abbott,November 21, 2006 10:34 am

I reckon Goodwin's plan was upended when they left the beach. This meant that he would have to gradually dispose of Eko, Nathan and Ana during the trek. WHen he died, the others took the last tallie they wanted. The original plan would have been Goodwin taking Cindy and Bernard back to other camp and then release Bernard to join Rose.

Hmm, good theory but im not so sure..

I think that Cindy was a plant and that she was in-league with Goodwin and one of them - notice how she seemed eager to dispose of Nathen - an attempt to keep Goodwins cover perhaps?

I also dont think that Goodwin was going to dispose of Ana - Ben later told Ana that Goodwin thought that he could 'save' her..so it seems that Ana was one fo the ones that they werent sure about but who Goodwin argued to case for..he believed that she should be brought in as she had potential to be a 'good' person (or something)..he just needed to mould her slightly (like Ben/Juliete are doing with Jack, perhaps?).

So in a sense, Goodwin's mission was indeed over - but he chose to stay on in hope of converting Ana..or at least probing her to see whether she could be considered as suitable..

Maybe.

[The_abbott]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,November 21, 2006 09:51 am

Hmm, good theory but im not so sure..

I think that Cindy was a plant and that she was in-league with Goodwin and one of them - notice how she seemed eager to dispose of Nathen - an attempt to keep Goodwins cover perhaps?

I also dont think that Goodwin was going to dispose of Ana - Ben later told Ana that Goodwin thought that he could 'save' her..so it seems that Ana was one fo the ones that they werent sure about but who Goodwin argued to case for..he believed that she should be brought in as she had potential to be a 'good' person (or something)..he just needed to mould her slightly (like Ben/Juliete are doing with Jack, perhaps?).

So in a sense, Goodwin's mission was indeed over - but he chose to stay on in hope of converting Ana..or at least probing her to see whether she could be considered as suitable..

Maybe.

The problem with Cindy being in league with Goodwin means that she knew that the plane was going to crash. I don't belive that for a second unless she knew for sure that ensuring she was at the back of the plane meant survival and she could join her friends quicker.

On the other hand if the Oceania crew are involved with Dharma then maybe Cindy knew who Goodwin was.

Hmmmm. We need a Cindy flashback LOL!

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by The_abbott,November 21, 2006 10:59 am

The problem with Cindy being in league with Goodwin means that she knew that the plane was going to crash. I don't belive that for a second unless she knew for sure that ensuring she was at the back of the plane meant survival and she could join her friends quicker.

On the other hand if the Oceania crew are involved with Dharma then maybe Cindy knew who Goodwin was.

Hmmmm. We need a Cindy flashback LOL!

Hmm, good point Abb's..can't deny that

Darn that pesky Cindy!

But yes, I agree that the Oceanic crew (or at least some of them) were in on it and this may indeed mean that she may have known who Goodwin/The Others were - she may have been briefed on them before the plane crashed/landed.. she may have been told what to do and to keep a low profile until the dossiers got sent to the others, dossiers containing all of the infor on the flight passengers, including who was an affiliate (eg Cindy) and who was a 'subject'..? Hence when they received the dossier on Cindy, they decided to bring her in?