Right or ROM..but maybe he had to!

[D-Roc]

In case you havent guessed, this is about Ethan Rom

Ive sorta dveloped a theory about this guy and why he acted so strangely in his final hours..

Feel free to rip it to pieces

Ok, so with the aid of Alex, Claire escapes from the Staff Hatch. The Others are angry..but most of all, Zeke is peeved as he was in charge of the operation and it makes him look bad in the eye's of Fenry and 'HIM'.

So Zeke chucks Ethan out of the group because he blames him for Claire's escape (Ethan probably covered for Alex or something). Anyway..desperate to get back in with his people he resorts to desperate measures. He's on his own and has no back-up..no calvery. He's a lone unit.

He devises a plan to win back favour with Zeke and his people. He decided to get Claire back under his own duress..however since he's now an independent unit he can't simply go charging in there as the Losties would crush him like an ant, despite his island induced super-strength. So beaten and wounded (result of Zeke's punishment) he clambers back into the losties territory (barely avoiding the mighty Cerberus) and waits for an opportunity to get Claire alone and take her. However, she is being closely gaurded..so next best thing is to threaten someone who is submissive and weak - thats were Chucky (Charlie) comes in. He see's him and Jin walking thorugh the Jungle and takes Jin out with a rock to the skull and ambushes Charlie, pinning him up against the tree and orders him to 'give Claire to him'. He needs Charlie to bring her to him because theres no other thesible way that he can get to her before his people move on out of the Staff hatch..and so he needs her by sundown..he needs to win favour!

Of course we know that his plan (or whatever) fails and he ends up getting 6 bullets in his carcus..

Anyhoo, any thoughts on the overall Ethan theory?

[Hordriss]

Originally Posted by KoRevo,November 04, 2006 09:54 am

In case you havent guessed, this is about Ethan Rom

Ive sorta dveloped a theory about this guy and why he acted so strangely in his final hours..

Feel free to rip it to pieces

Ok, so with the aid of Alex, Claire escapes from the Staff Hatch. The Others are angry..but most of all, Zeke is peeved as he was in charge of the operation and it makes him look bad in the eye's of Fenry and 'HIM'.

So Zeke chucks Ethan out of the group because he blames him for Claire's escape (Ethan probably covered for Alex or something). Anyway..desperate to get back in with his people he resorts to desperate measures. He's on his own and has no back-up..no calvery. He's a lone unit.

He devises a plan to win back favour with Zeke and his people. He decided to get Claire back under his own duress..however since he's now an independent unit he can't simply go charging in there as the Losties would crush him like an ant, despite his island induced super-strength. So beaten and wounded (result of Zeke's punishment) he clambers back into the losties territory (barely avoiding the mighty Cerberus) and waits for an opportunity to get Claire alone and take her. However, she is being closely gaurded..so next best thing is to threaten someone who is submissive and weak - thats were Chucky (Charlie) comes in. He see's him and Jin walking thorugh the Jungle and takes Jin out with a rock to the skull and ambushes Charlie, pinning him up against the tree and orders him to 'give Claire to him'. He needs Charlie to bring her to him because theres no other thesible way that he can get to her before his people move on out of the Staff hatch..and so he needs her by sundown..he needs to win favour!

Of course we know that his plan (or whatever) fails and he ends up getting 6 bullets in his carcus..

Anyhoo, any thoughts on the overall Ethan theory?

Anything's possible at this stage. One point you raise that I would very much like the answer to is why could Ethan and "Henry" risk the journey to the encampment but why Ms. Klugh and the other "Others" didn't feel up to the task, even to save "Henry" from his prison. Could it be the "black smoke monster" that deters them? Possibly, but if so, what deters it from attacking certain people? It spared Eko and Locke (once, anyway), both of whom have been judged as "good people" by objective outsiders (Yemi and "Henry&quot. Of course, "Henry" also rated himself as a good person.

So this lends some support to the idea that Ethan and Henry, at least, are good (or good enough to elude Old Smokey, at any rate).

[Verix]

Wow, i really like that theory Kor, makes a lot of sense. Explains why Ethan seemed to act on his own so much and showed none of that characteristic others trait of leaving no trail/mark on where they've been.

[Cavegirl]

Great theory, Kor, I think you could be right. One thing I would say is that Ethan's challenge to Charlie seemed very much a test like all the others the survivors have been subjected to:
How many people will you let die, to save Claire?
Michael, what would you do to get your son back?
Locke, will you press this button on faith? How about if we deliberately rock your faith?
Jack, will you believe it is more than coincidence, if you meet Desmond here?
and so on.

This makes me wonder if he was under orders to create the situation, rather than thinking of it for himself - if it was part of a larger plan?

Also, I don't think Ethan (if he's just a regular man, or even a super strong one) could deliberately break every bone in a man's body in the time available. Isn't that what they said happened to Scott/Steve, or am I misremembering? So I don't think he was acting in isolation.

Great theory, though, I really hope we find out what happened!

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Hordriss,November 04, 2006 11:58 am

Anything's possible at this stage. One point you raise that I would very much like the answer to is why could Ethan and "Henry" risk the journey to the encampment but why Ms. Klugh and the other "Others" didn't feel up to the task, even to save "Henry" from his prison. Could it be the "black smoke monster" that deters them? Possibly, but if so, what deters it from attacking certain people? It spared Eko and Locke (once, anyway), both of whom have been judged as "good people" by objective outsiders (Yemi and "Henry&quot. Of course, "Henry" also rated himself as a good person.

So this lends some support to the idea that Ethan and Henry, at least, are good (or good enough to elude Old Smokey, at any rate).

Interesting.

The BS has resisted attacking on the following occasions:

-Locke (Walkabout)
-Locke, Hurley (Exodus)
-Kate, Jack, Rousseau (Exodus)..though perhaps it just couldnt get to them as they were hiding within the trees. Though in saying that cant the BS just pass through the gaps?? Hmm..strange.
-Mr Eko (T23P)

I agree that the BS perhaps resisted attacking Locke and Eko (and Perhaps Hurley) because they have been judged as Good people. It was almost as if the BS was reading their deepest thoughts..their subconcious even. The images in the smoke when it was 'scanning' Eko seemed to suggest that it was either collating (extracting/gathering) info or presenting it to him - almost as if it was reminding him? Eitherway it seems as if the BS is a highly intelligent organism - perhaps man made, perhaps organic - probably both.

When it attacked Locke that was quite strange. It could be argued that it wanted to take him to the Pearl, rather than his gola of opening the Swan? It could also be argued that the BS 'forgot' who Locke was and decided that he didnt pass the security 'protocol'? Perhaps it just malfunctioned?

Anyhoo..all of which begs the question - who controls the BS? Is it controlled by Fenry's others? I suppose this is unlikely because as you pointed out above they seem to be hesitent about breaching 'the line'..certainly on mass. So perhaps it is controlled by another faction (who want to recruit Locke, maybe? ..is this why Fenry got caught? is this why he messed with Locke's head?)? ..or perhaps ole smokey is a sentient (like the island itself?) and functions on his own accord (or on auto-pilot)?

Despite all of this, i do feel that Fenry's people do have a code of conduct that they have to adhere to. Hence why they didnt get Fenry back by force and why only Ethan was sent in originally. Perhaps this is part of their philosophy - never to venture into the 'dragons' (Cerberus') lair unless absolutely necessary? Or perhaps they have a tenancy agreement of somekind?

Eitherway, that line that Zeke mentioned seems to be very real...at least to them

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Verix,November 04, 2006 10:38 pm

Wow, i really like that theory Kor, makes a lot of sense. Explains why Ethan seemed to act on his own so much and showed none of that characteristic others trait of leaving no trail/mark on where they've been.

Thanks. yeah, I do think it's possible that he was outcasted. Could also explain his desperation (and scratches, injuries) that he had when threatening Charlie and chasing after Claire in 'Homecoming'.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Cavegirl,November 05, 2006 12:59 pm

Great theory, Kor, I think you could be right. One thing I would say is that Ethan's challenge to Charlie seemed very much a test like all the others the survivors have been subjected to:
How many people will you let die, to save Claire?
Michael, what would you do to get your son back?
Locke, will you press this button on faith? How about if we deliberately rock your faith?
Jack, will you believe it is more than coincidence, if you meet Desmond here?
and so on.

This makes me wonder if he was under orders to create the situation, rather than thinking of it for himself - if it was part of a larger plan?

Also, I don't think Ethan (if he's just a regular man, or even a super strong one) could deliberately break every bone in a man's body in the time available. Isn't that what they said happened to Scott/Steve, or am I misremembering? So I don't think he was acting in isolation.

Great theory, though, I really hope we find out what happened!

Interesting.

I agree that there seems to be a set of conditions that have been created or implented for each lostie. It's almost as if they each have their own little tests (as you say) to pass..or fail.

In this sense i do see (aspects of) it like a game or 'test' (as i hate using the word 'game' - doesnt illustrate the full context of what i mean :P ). However despite these conditions (or personal tests) i also feel that there is a sense of realness and consequence to them (if you know what i mean?).

It does seem as if the 'Others' are part of this plan..or at the very least are under order to 'facilitate' it. They seem to know our losties better than they know themselves (eg Fenry easily manipulating Jack and Locke, Zeke knowing their names etc). This seems to suggest that they either had a hand in bringing them to the island or were expecting them? Weve seen that Kelvin had recent links to the outside world..now if he is on the same side as Fenry's lot then this would suggest that their reach is far and wide and that they (or some other group on the island) are one part of a massive operation (as many of us expect to be the case to be fair).

At this stage, i reckon that they are US military personnel (and some scientists?) who were recruited by Hanso or Dharma to work for a 'uptopian future'. A better future. However i reckon that they either broke away from original Dharma or became disillusioned with the Dharma philosophy and whilst they have embraced some of their values, they have in effect created their own little civilisation..of which other island civilisations currently exist (i might revise this theory though). The question for me is how much power do they currently have? If Fenry was telling the truth it would seem as if they do have quite a bit of power considering Fenry has facilitated Mike's escape back to the real world..

Going back to Ethan..yeah personally i dont think it's cut and dried that he killed Scott. I mean it may have been his people. Though personaly i wouldnt be suprised if it was an-other faction or even ole Smokey

[Cavegirl]

In this sense i do see (aspects of) it like a game or 'test' (as i hate using the word 'game' - doesnt illustrate the full context of what i mean tongue.gif ). However despite these conditions (or personal tests) i also feel that there is a sense of realness and consequence to them (if you know what i mean?).

Yes, I know what you mean. I really don't want it to be a genuine game, as that would be such a let down, yet I keep returning to it because so many things scream "Game!" In a way it seems as if there are certain rules the Others have to follow, even if it is all real at the same time, like fighting a war within the confines of the Geneva Convention. I just can't think of anything that makes sense to explain this...

They seem to know our losties better than they know themselves (eg Fenry easily manipulating Jack and Locke, Zeke knowing their names etc). This seems to suggest that they either had a hand in bringing them to the island or were expecting them? Weve seen that Kelvin had recent links to the outside world..now if he is on the same side as Fenry's lot then this would suggest that their reach is far and wide and that they (or some other group on the island) are one part of a massive operation (as many of us expect to be the case to be fair).

Although they could merely know about our Losties because they have been observing them since 22/09/04. Kelvin (who was known to Sayid) was Desmond's welcome committee of one. This suggests to me that their members are quite small because they had to double up a role. However, if the crash was deliberately staged to happen after Desmond "killed" Kelvin, they would know that Sayid and Kelvin would never meet. It is another staggering coincidence, isn't it, that Kelvin disappeared on the same day the only man who could identify him arrived on the island!

As usual, one question answered (was Kelvin real) leads to a million more to ask. Roll on series 3!

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Cavegirl,November 08, 2006 12:52 am

Yes, I know what you mean. I really don't want it to be a genuine game, as that would be such a let down, yet I keep returning to it because so many things scream "Game!" In a way it seems as if there are certain rules the Others have to follow, even if it is all real at the same time, like fighting a war within the confines of the Geneva Convention. I just can't think of anything that makes sense to explain this...

Yes, i can swallow it being compared to a strategy contest or a 'war' of sorts..it's just that the word 'game' doesnt carry over the same level of significance with what i believe is taking place on the island.

I agree that the Others operate under a code of conduct - thats one of the important (and somewhat overlooked, i feel) aspects of Season 2 - that the others are not mindless savages..but methodical, discilplined (with a few exceptions, ahem - Zeke) and honourable people. It's there apparent code of conduct that give this whole thing a 'game' feel, i believe.

So i suppose we kinda have a similar view but it's just that our way of explaining it is slightly different, maybe?

[Lost_obsesed_Jade]

Originally Posted by KoRevo,November 04, 2006 09:54 am

He needs Charlie to bring her to him because theres no other thesible way that he can get to her before his people move on out of the Staff hatch..and so he needs her by sundown..he needs to win favour!

All a great theory, the idea of him being outcast seems gfood, and him being beaten up would explain the limping and scratches.

It's only this bit about neededing to get her by sundown i quip about, because he said he would keep killing until he got her, no mater how many days, and it was actually not till the next day when they took claire to him.

Also i dont like that this theory clashes with mine that Ethan didnt kill Scottt, one of his Dhama friends did, but the rest fits so well i will have to give up my idea of Ethan being harmless and submit to this

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Lost_obsesed_Jade,November 08, 2006 05:09 pm

All a great theory, the idea of him being outcast seems gfood, and him being beaten up would explain the limping and scratches.

It's only this bit about neededing to get her by sundown i quip about, because he said he would keep killing until he got her, no mater how many days, and it was actually not till the next day when they took claire to him.

Also i dont like that this theory clashes with mine that Ethan didnt kill Scottt, one of his Dhama friends did, but the rest fits so well i will have to give up my idea of Ethan being harmless and submit to this

I think he warned Charlie to bring her to him by sundown because his people (Zeke and co) were moving on..their plans had been disrupted (they were aleady in a rush to get Aaron 'delivered') and they were possibly abandoning the Staff (medical) hatch before another faction came in (Team Hanso perhaps? we know that the medical hatch was wrecked and vandilised). So Ethan had to act fast if he wanted to get back into the group and be redeemed for his mistake/s.

I think Ethan just threateneed to kill one of them for each day that Claire wasnt brought to him in order to make Charlie react and bring Claire to him sooner. Or at least that was Ethans hope.

Also, I too dont think Ethan killed Scott. I think people have jumped to conclusions with the whole Ethan killed Scott thing. I mean, i doubt that Ethan even hung Charlie, let alne killed Scott. I think it was another faction or group who killed Scotty boy.

[Lost_obsesed_Jade]

No, i still dont think they moved from that hatch then, making Ethan wish to hurry, i think he wished to hurry purly because Claire was so far along in her pregnacy and could have it any day. I think they moved out of there after thier man - Ethan - was killed, because they realised that the survivors could be a threat.
Yes, i do believe that was to make him bring her sooner, but i think he knew Charlie wouldnt want to bring her at all, and that the threat was made knowing that Charlie would tell Jack, and Jack would not risk mass life loss on account of one.
I also do not believe Ethan himself hung Charlie and killed Scott, but i do believe Charlie was hung by others in Ethans group, while he delivered the message to jack, knowing that he wouldnt stop following, but giving a warning because it was fair. I think Scott may have been killed by the shark, but on the others orders.