"Jin knows I betrayed him"

[Audio Pineapple]

Now it's been three weeks that I've been forgetting to post this topic and I've glanced back and can't see it duplicated but when Sun said "Jin knows I betrayed him" to Sayid, just what was she talking about?

[Beach Crew]

Oh my word. I wondered about this too during the eppy, but then totally forgot, lol.

But yeah, how much does Jin know?

Personally I think he knows about the affair, he knows, and he's hurt by this. I also think he knows about the fact that she and Sayid were conspiring against him.

But what I really wanna know, is how much English just Jin speak?

[Audio Pineapple]

Me to - every so often when I was away from the computer my brain would suddenly flash "Jin and Sun! Right - post it this time" but by the time I logged on I'd forgotten it again.

I'm not sure that he knows about her affair, or at least not at the time. I'm not sure he would have been so leinient with Jae if he did know.

And I don't think he knew she was planning to run away, because he had his own big plan to run away with her!

He took her speaking English as a huge betrayal so I'm not sure how much he can speak. He couldn't understand Sawyer talking about Sun being pregnant.

[D-Roc]

Well she's a devious woman so who knows. My guess is that she has an incling that he knows about Jae..but she was perhaps also referring to to whole Sayid/plan thing. I'll have to rewatch the context of how she said it though

[Murgatroyd]

I don't think she's a phenomenally 'devious woman' any more than Jin's an immensely abusive man - that is, she resorted to deception to counter his perceived (and actually quite real, though for misunderstood reasons) abuse and neglect. It's not in any sense one-sided. I think she meant, ostensibly, her conspiring with Sayid, but she was thinking back to her greater deception when she had an affair with Jae (and that I hope the new improved-but-with-occasional-lapses Jin would acknowledge was at least partly fuelled by his own behaviour).

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd,December 10, 2006 11:32 am

I don't think she's a phenomenally 'devious woman' any more than Jin's an immensely abusive man - that is, she resorted to deception to counter his perceived (and actually quite real, though for misunderstood reasons) abuse and neglect. It's not in any sense one-sided.

Have we seen any evidence to suggest that Jin was "abusive" and if so, when? I can't recall this If you mean in terms of his job (which i now assume you mean)..well that was because of her father..she knew what kind of business he dabbled in and should have understood that Jin was only doing it for them and for the pride of having a well paid job. I recall her looking down her nose at him for being a lowly fisherman (or some derivative of that) and so it's no wonder her did everything he could do maintain a respectable status in her eyes - including work for her father.

And at any rate it doesnt excuse (or justify) sleeping with another man. She's a coward. If she wasnt happy with Jin then she should've just left him and not bedded kojak whilst still with Jin. I respect your views Murg and i know you're offering a possible explanation for her actions, but i just dont see how Jin was abusive and if you do mean in terms of his field of work, i still dont see why 'butter wouldnt melt' (aka Sun) couldnt see that it was for her that he was doing it.

He was a free spirit before he got tied down with her..couldnt she see how working for her dad made him change? It was all for her and personally i dont feel any sympathy towards her..not when i really analyse the situation. I hope for Jin's sake that the baby isnt his also

Like you inferred..it should be 50/50 (not one sided)..yet for me Jin gave far more than he recieved. Poor Bloke.

[Murgatroyd]

I actually mean to Sun as well: his anger at her failure to get pregnant, his increasing distance from her, the lack of affection, his telling her what to do for years on end - both of them acknowledged that was how it had been when he had the front (to his eternal credit, instantly repented) to say he didn't like being ordered about, and he accepted that she'd hated it. Of course there was more pressure on Jin than she ever could have realised and his behaviour is much more understandable than the early episodes suggested it would be, but I can see very well why she behaved as she did as well (for example - she thought, when he came home covered in blood that, he was killing people and she was wrong, for which Jin gets my pity as he was actually saving a man's life, but he didn't contradict her so she could hardly be expected to think otherwise). Her desire to escape that marriage came about prior to her having an affair, remember - Jae was teaching her English so that she could flee, so she wanted out regardless of what she then did.

[Murgatroyd]

Incidentally, I don't think she's a coward so much as a woman justifiably terrified of a man she knows to be capable of severe physical violence and believes (albeit very incorrectly) to be malicious. Yes, simply saying out loud that she was leaving him would've been the most decent thing to do, but I can understand very well why she felt incapable of doing that - she thought Jin was dangerous for a long time, even slapping Michael to protect him from further harm ('you don't know what he's capable of'). And I do wish she hadn't had an affair seeing as the relationship with Jin turned out to be not as over as it first appeared, but I don't think she did it with anything approaching malicious intent - it wasn't just for extra kicks on the side and it wasn't to deliberately hurt her husband. It was because it was the first offer of affection she'd had in some considerable time, and she succumbed to that.

[-x-madegurl-x-]

I think Jin knows what happened between her and Jae because maybe he's wondering how she is pregnant when he can't make her.

I'm not sure if he knows exactly WHO it was that she slept with but I think he has his suspicions.

[Laura~J]

I voted for the Sayid one. I dont think Jin knows about Jae. We saw how angry he was, how upset he was with Sun for keeping her English speaking-ness (? that was hard to word, I can't be bothered thinking right now!) - so if he did know or have suspicions about her and Jae then I think he would've shown her by now. Jin's obviously a man of faith if he thinks the baby is a miracle.