Did Locke know Boone would Fall?

[Audio Pineapple]

I was just wondering about Locke’s vision of the Beechcraft and the question popped up – did Locke know Boone would be injured in his quest? I’ve heard this argument put forward many times but…

He was distracted at the time by his encroaching paralysis and a lot was happening in his vision – the part he chose to focus on as the main area was the plane crashing although it could have been Boone dying.

And also, not everything in Locke’s vision came true and some of it was symbolic; such as his mother standing in the middle of the jungle pointing up to the plane. Why would he have thought that Boone covered in blood wasn’t symbolic?

And we know now that he doesn’t consider Boone a sacrifice that the island demanded as he previously claimed because when Boone appeared to him in Further Instructions and sarcastically announced that he was the sacrifice Locke disagreed with him, shaking his head and trying to apologise.

So was it feasible to have expected Locke to know?

[I’m voting for ‘he may have had inkling’]

[*SP*]

Originally Posted by Audio Pineapple,January 04, 2007 11:17 pm

And also, not everything in Locke’s vision came true and some of it was symbolic; such as his mother standing in the middle of the jungle pointing up to the plane. Why would he have thought that Boone covered in blood wasn’t symbolic?

I think this is so important. He was experiencing a vision, probably unlike anything he's ever seen before. Although it make have seemed disturbing that Boone appeared in it, battered and bloody, I don't think he necessarily took it as a premonition because he saw his mother too and that didn't mean she was on the Island. So, I don't think Locke would automatically think that Boone would definately be hurt.

I voted He took a risk, because I guess he must have thought injury may be possible but it think he was so determined to follow 'signs' that it would have been a risk worth taking at that time. In hindsight he perhaps realises the risk was too great.

[Blloydy]

I voted He thought it might be a possibility and took a risk because he saw Boone there, injured, but he chose to ignore it because in his opinion there was something more important at stake: the use of his legs.

I'm not saying he saw it and deliberetly got Boone to go up there and as a result of this die because he thought the island wanted it, so it would give him the use of his legs back.

But it's not the kind of think you would/should ignore, the hatch was in his vision and that's real, the jungle - it's real, the beach craft, also real, so why did he not see injured Boone as real?

He did try to get Boone to come down - he seemed to have changed his mind and realised that it was in fact real, but he realised too late. It was quite obvious that a plane hanging off the edge of a cliff isn't safe and he should have made the connection of that and his vision.

(p.s. Sorry for rambling - didn't know how else to get my point across)

[Audio Pineapple]

I'm not saying he saw it and deliberetly got Boone to go up there and as a result of this die because he thought the island wanted it, so it would give him the use of his legs back.

But it's not the kind of think you would/should ignore, the hatch was in his vision and that's real, the jungle - it's real, the beach craft, also real, so why did he not see injured Boone as real?

It's a good point. The realistic elements of the vision did far outweigh the unreal elements - esspecially Boone uttering "Teresa falls up the stairs, Teresa falls down the stairs" so I'm surprised that finding out the story behind this didn't alert Locke to the realism more - although he was overcome with his tunnel vision at the time and all that mattered was getting to the plane - so he could have easily considered this a sign that he was on the right path, as he had uncovered a mystery that the island tantalized him with in the vision.

He did try to get Boone to come down - he seemed to have changed his mind and realised that it was in fact real, but he realised too late. It was quite obvious that a plane hanging off the edge of a cliff isn't safe and he should have made the connection of that and his vision.

Ahh - a Boone fan who'll admit that Locke tried to gete Boone to come down *hugs*

(p.s. Sorry for rambling - didn't know how else to get my point across)

Nothing wrong with a good ramble lol.

[Audio Pineapple]

Originally Posted by *SP*,January 05, 2007 01:10 am

I think this is so important. He was experiencing a vision, probably unlike anything he's ever seen before. Although it make have seemed disturbing that Boone appeared in it, battered and bloody, I don't think he necessarily took it as a premonition because he saw his mother too and that didn't mean she was on the Island. So, I don't think Locke would automatically think that Boone would definately be hurt.

I voted He took a risk, because I guess he must have thought injury may be possible but it think he was so determined to follow 'signs' that it would have been a risk worth taking at that time. In hindsight he perhaps realises the risk was too great.

His capacity for tunnel vision is a worrying aspect of his personality and he had asked the island to give him a sign - so he would have put his faith in it that it was leading him down the right path for both him and Boone at the time. This shattered when he saw that the plane was filled with heroin and it was at that point that Locke tried to get Boone to come down.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by Audio Pineapple,January 05, 2007 12:17 am

And also, not everything in Locke’s vision came true and some of it was symbolic; such as his mother standing in the middle of the jungle pointing up to the plane. Why would he have thought that Boone covered in blood wasn’t symbolic?

I think his mother represented the 'instigator' - like how (in the flashback) she set Locke up to be conned, she was doing the same again, this time for Locke to 'use' Boone...

I don't think he knew Boone would be killed, but I think he was willing to allow Boone to be hurt for him to fulfil his destiny.

And I still think Locke thinks Boones death was required, he's only recently said after Eko's death - "Eko died for a reason I (we) just don't know what it is yet" - or something to that effect.

But in my opinion, Locke's a bright fella - Boone was covered in blood, he could have put 2 and 2 together. However, saying that - I have no doubt that if he could, Locke would have climbed the plane himself...

(I voted: "He thought it might be a possibility and took a risk" as I don't think that Locke thought that it was 'a dead cert' that Boone would be hurt)

[Audio Pineapple]

I've never thought about his mother like that but it makes sense - although could it also show that Locke won't ever find his higher purpose - considering how, on her off and on island appearences he has gone after a new cause and lost it.

And I'm not sure that Locke thinks it was required or not. My gut instinct says no because of how broken up Locke was once Boone crashed and the silent conversation in Further Instructions but I might just be saying that because he's my favourite.

[Murgatroyd]

If you ask people to go up dangerous looking cliffs, you have to at least have an inkling that something might happen to him, but I genuinely don't think he expected Boone to fall because of the premonition - who, at that time, was to say that Bloodied Boone wasn't a result of Locke's failing to carry out the requirements of the dream? And I think 'Boone was a sacrifice the island demanded' was an excuse concocted after the event so Locke could live with himself: I don't believe it was something he was actively working towards.

[James]

I voted he thought it might be a possibility and took a risk as i think that from the vision he could tell that boone may get injured in some way but as he was so focused on finding the plane as he thought it would lead him to his destiny he ignored the vision.

He also did not know how boone would be injured and so maybe thought that it would be avoidable and i think that as he had so much faith in the island he beleived that whatever he was being led to would be incredibly important and would benefit him in some way and as such the risk that boone may be injured was a risk that he was willing to take. I think that if he had known that it would definatley lead to boones death then he wouldnt of got boone to climb up to the plane.

[The_other_other]

he clearly thought something might happen from his vision but due to his blind faith he thought the risk was worth it. He put too much trust in the island, and hes made this mistake repeatedly through the series.

[Kiowa Warrior]

I don't think that Locke truly believed that Boone would fall and die, and I don't think he would have taken such a risk had he considered it. I think that Locke believed that there was a risk of Boone becoming injured as a result of going up into the plane, and he decided to take it. Now of course in an ideal world no-one should put anyone else at risk, but if Locke's history and state of mind and what he was immediately expereincing on the island is taken into account, I daresy that Locke was motivated and influenced more by his own situation than by what would happen to Boone.

In his vision Locke saw Boone bloodied but still alive and talking, so if Locke had seen a vision of Boone in a shallow grave and then still decided to send him up into the plane, I think then is the time that Lcoke would have been acting very immorally and very selfishly. Boone was the closest person Locke had for a friend on the island, and I fail to believe that he would have risked his friend's life, espeically since all that Locke really wants is for someone to accept, want and need him, which is essentially what Boone was doing.

Locke wanted to know what was in the plane, and as soon as Boone had shown that it contained statues full of drugs (and when the plane started falling), Locke began screaming for Boone to get out of there. But unfortunately Boone was too busy having a chat on the radio to pay much attention to him. If Locke really knew that Boone would plumment to his death, then he wouldn't have been so concerned for Boone to come get out of the plane after his purpose - to discover what was in it - had been fulfilled.

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd

who, at that time, was to say that Bloodied Boone wasn't a result of Locke's failing to carry out the requirements of the dream?

That's a good point, because Locke may well have interpreted the vision of injured Boone as being a warning of what was to come to his friend if he didn't obey the Island's wishes/directions. It could be another reason as to why Locke didn't tell Boone that he had had a vision of him all cut and bloody, because what's the betting that Boone wouldn't believe Locke telling him that he would wind up injured if the Island wasn't obeyed. Locke had already seemingly been punished by the Island (deterioration of his legs) due to his lapse of faith in it, and so it's not too hard to believe that Locke would believe that the Island would punish those closest to him as a result of his attitude and actions.

[D-Roc]

Many good points above by you guys.

I would agree with most of you that Locke didnt know for certain that Boone was going to die or even that he would get 'that' badly hurt.

I think the thing we have to remember is that good Hunters take 'risks'. Locke at that time was in his 'hunter mode' and so he was willing to throw caution to the wind. Granted, Locke was also getting a tad impatient at this time and Boone's growing discontent about building Trebuchets along with his own frustration had him looking for a sign. And boy did he receive one. SP (i think it was) made a good point aboiut Locke's dream being like no other he had previoulsy ever experienced. Infact he said so didnt he - "This was the most real dream i ever had" (or words to that effect)..and sohe was always going to follow it..afterall, the island had done no wrong to him personally up to that point.

I also agree with UNUM about his mom being symbolic of the 'instigator' - thats a very astute point *hats off*

I would disagree with you slightly AP, in that i do think that essentially Boone was a sacrifice that the island demanded. I know Boone said it sarcasitcally but "everything happens for a reason"..i think Locke (after meeting Boone again) is back to believing this. Thats not to say that Locke isnt deeply sorry or that he 100% knew Boone would die. I still think that Locke thought that, if anything, Boone would receive a couple of scrathes. Lets not forget that Locke also took a gamble himself, as he saw himself being back in a wheelchair. As you say, perhaps Locke was also experiencing tunnel vision and should've been more cautious and consired the ramifications. However, i think that for some people on the island, their fate was more set in stone that others and that the chain of events, although often grim..are most necessary. I think Locke has learned alot from the deaths of Boone and Eko and i think that with their help (past help an help from beyond?) he will do whatever it is he is destined to do ..eventually. i hope.

[Jen]

i voted for "he may have had an inkling"

i don't think he definatly knew anything was going to happen to boone simply because i don;t think even locke would have gone so far as to let someone die just because of "destiny" or whatever.

i didn't say he had no idea though because we know from further instructions that locke see's the island as something to talk to, and the vision could have been the island talking to him, telling him what was needed. Also the way he said, after boone had died "he was a sacrifice the island demanded", this does make me think that maybe he did know what was going to happen

[St. Anger]

I think this debate could go on for ages.

I voted He may have had an inkling but now wish I'd have voted He knew Boone would be injured but considered it justifiable.

Anyhoo, I hope Paolo is Locke's next sacrifice... :P