Sayid's Mental State

[Audio Pineapple]

Personally I think that at the moment Sayid is on the verge of some kind of breakdown. He usually seems strong via his inability to discuss his emotions with the other castaways but from the few glimpses of emotion that we see (telling Ana that he hears the screams of those he tortured and that he considers himself dead; telling Ben that he would know how many shovels of earth it would take to bury the woman he loved) he is frequently distressed and unnerved – something we again saw in TGB when he was saying that he would take two Others captive and kill the rest – saying this without any emotion whatsoever. This screeches of repressed emotion and if he keeps it buried long enough it will ultimately explode.

Lets not forget that he has lost all he cared about (much more so than many of the other survivors) first his only visible friend Essam commits suicide in front of him as a direct result of Sayid’s actions (“you were supposed to be my brother, you were supposed to be my friend”) and then hope of finding Nadia, as seen in Solitary when he told Rousseau that she was dead, and then Shannon and now Jack, who for such a solitary man provided a few token and meaningless conversations which has been the crutch of his human contact ever since Shannon’s demise.

And now he has to walk all the way back to the camp and face the humiliation and questioning of the other castaways as to why he could not save Jack, Kate and Sawyer. Plus, as the next highest authority figure (having lost the doctor and the cop and being left with the soldier) I have a feeling that he will end up with a lot more strain put upon him by the rest of the castaways – who will probably want to go after their lost companions with all guns blazing and will see Sayid (and his anger and his torturing skills) as a viable asset to be utilized – despite how this could push him even further over the edge.

My only hope is that he’ll reach rock-bottom quickly enough that he can begin to rebuild his life and remember how it is to function without the anger.

So – does anyone agree or am I talking a load of twaddle?

[Laura~J]

You're not talking twaddle at all (and as a side note - twaddle = word of the day! :P)

I agree that he will have to break at some point; there's no way someone can go through so much and not release it in some way. The only time we've seen him cry is right after losing Shannon and after that he began to bottle everything up again. Oh yeah and as yo usay the big rant he had with Benry. I really liked that side of Sayid, it shows that he isn't just this mechanical being that he sometimes comes across as - he does have emotions and I wish they'd show that more often.

I don't really know where I was going with that and I don't want to turn this into a "I think Sayid's such a fascinating character" post so to answer your question; yes I think some sort of breakdown will be on the cards, I'm just not sure when we'll see it. Mid-season maybe? That'd be a nice time for a Sayid-centric episode if you ask me.

[Audio Pineapple]

Originally Posted by Laura~J,November 22, 2006 11:08 pm

You're not talking twaddle at all (and as a side note - twaddle = word of the day! :P)

[hehe - word of the day]

I agree that he will have to break at some point; there's no way someone can go through so much and not release it in some way. The only time we've seen him cry is right after losing Shannon and after that he began to bottle everything up again. Oh yeah and as yo usay the big rant he had with Benry.

That's where he differs from most of the other characters who tend to have their own ways of dealing with their emotions - Jack cries to release his anger and frustration at the world; Sawyer makes himself hated and, of course, has his letter to read whenever he needs to feel down, Charlie has/had his drugs, Desmond had his books, Eko (now) has his religion and so on and so forth but it seems that the only release Sayid now knows is through anger. Which makes me worry that if he does have his breakdown it may be if he loses control of this and could end up attacking or killing one of the castaways.

I really liked that side of Sayid, it shows that he isn't just this mechanical being that he sometimes comes across as - he does have emotions and I wish they'd show that more often.

The sad part is that he was starting to show them more - Shannon was opening him up as a person (such as with the dead girl's shoes and, of course his speech before her death) but all the progress that he had made has now been wiped out.

I don't really know where I was going with that and I don't want to turn this into a "I think Sayid's such a fascinating character" post so to answer your question; yes I think some sort of breakdown will be on the cards, I'm just not sure when we'll see it. Mid-season maybe? That'd be a nice time for a Sayid-centric episode if you ask me.

I think it would be if/when they run into the Others again. or the next time that someone gets hurt at their hand. I have an image of Sayid looking for revenge against them all if they attack the castaways again.

[Murgatroyd]

Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment. Mostly I've been hating the writers for making him (unrealistically in my view) revert back to his torturing ways after swearing off it in such an emphatic way - and then not ostensibly because he blamed Ben for Shannon's death but because Rousseau, of all people, told him Ben was a liar. But taking it as a legitimate character development, it's a devastating and terribly sad reversion and there doesn't seem to be a great deal of rational thinking behind it. He's lapsed into a way he's only convinced himself is right because it gives him a frisson of physical revenge and a means of venting his overwhelming anger. For all that I've hated and lamented what he's allowed himself to become, his sometimes illogical choices mean it's easy to accept that his conscience has been broken by what's happened to him rather than simply tossed aside.

[The_other_other]

Hes already had a breakdown from when he went beserk with henry and started crying and beating him up. Id classify that as a breakdown.

[D-Roc]

I think Sayid's currently going through a break down big style.

The man has lost the plot, this is not the Sayid i knew and loved back in S1 (even after what he did to James). This Sayid makes no sense..using suspicion as an excuse to pummel someone half to death. A definate sign of his shattered state of mind. I dont completely blame him, as he has gone through turmoil..however i do feel that Shannon's death has been used as an innapropriate excuse somewhat..i mean lets get this in perspective..how long were they an item for..what, 20 odd days? To me thats a rather short time to be crucifying a someone on the basis that they might be implicated. I dont doubt that he cared for her..and he maybe even loved her for real..but i sense that whatevers going through Sayid's warped mind right now that it's not just to do with Shannon. I suspect that his shattered state of mind is more to do with the constant losses that he's had in his life - his familiy, friends, morals, Shannon..and perhaps most importantly..Nadia.

[Audio Pineapple]

Roco I'm impressed - barely a word of Sayid Bashing in that post!

But I agree that he has been going down the slope imo since Essam's suicide as we saw him attacking Sawyer, despite his own pledges (twice) to never do so again and that Shannon was pulling him back from the brink, rather than starting his fall after her death.

Even though they weren't together long, the fact that he had someone who cared about him and someone that he could protect rather than harm was what made him cling to his sanity but once he lost his crutch there was nothing left for him to fight for - except, as he appears to believe, his anger.

[Lost_obsesed_Jade]

Since Shannon dies he has beeen a broken man, but i don't think he's had a true breakdown yet

[Cavegirl]

I think he's already in the middle of a nervous breakdown, and definitely has diminished responsibility. As I mentioned in the Should Ben beat up Sayid thread (can't remember the exact title, sorry), I think several of the Losties and Others need psychiatric care more than anything else.

Korevo said:

i sense that whatevers going through Sayid's warped mind right now that it's not just to do with Shannon. I suspect that his shattered state of mind is more to do with the constant losses that he's had in his life - his familiy, friends, morals, Shannon..and perhaps most importantly..Nadia.

I agree 100%. In common with other Losties his issues began way before the plane crash.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Audio Pineapple,November 23, 2006 08:48 pm

Roco I'm impressed - barely a word of Sayid Bashing in that post!

But I agree that he has been going down the slope imo since Essam's suicide as we saw him attacking Sawyer, despite his own pledges (twice) to never do so again and that Shannon was pulling him back from the brink, rather than starting his fall after her death.

Even though they weren't together long, the fact that he had someone who cared about him and someone that he could protect rather than harm was what made him cling to his sanity but once he lost his crutch there was nothing left for him to fight for - except, as he appears to believe, his anger.

lol, im starting to consider all of the motivations behind his current madness. he only thing that i can hold onto in his defence is the constant losses that he's had in his life - Shannon beng the latest. This tells me that his anger and rage isnt merely because of the loss of a woman he barely knew..but because of an-other loss..which would no doubt affect anyone. Sayid thought that something good could finally come out of his tragic life and Shannon in sense saved him.

So essentially i can reason with his rage in on the basis that he is so messed up because Shannon (in his mind) was his 'last chance at happyness'..

However, my charity ends there.

All of this does give him 5% redemption (imo) but i cant forget the scars on poor Bens face. If he had actually witnessed Benjamin killing Shannon then i could perhaps understand Sayid's need to beat the heck out of him..but in the absence of evidence people cant take the law into their own hands like that..not even in the wild.

And the thing that really worries me is that Sayid now feels justified inhis actions..he feels that suspicion is now the way to treat people. This is so foolish.. and i 'fear' that Sayids actions may well cost Sun her baby or life?..afterall, Picketts gonna be wanted some sweet revenge..

[Kiowa Warrior]

Yes, I'd agree with the general opinion here that Sayid's mental state isn't a particularly healthy one. And I'd also agree that when Sayid comes back into camp, most of the remaining survivors will look to him to be the camp's leader. But this then makes me worry for the way they could then begin to act: no doubt everyone will eventually find out that Jack, Kate and Sawyer have been taken by the Others (from Hurley I'd guess), and then they will hear about how the Others tried to kill Sun, Sayid and Jin, and that the boat was stolen. So as well as being scared, I'd guess that the survivors would be feeling a great deal of anger towards the Others as well, and they could then urge Sayid into leading - or supporting - a violent plan against the Others, and if Sayid becomes caught up in it then I fear that his mental state will deteriorate even more.

[Audio Pineapple]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,November 24, 2006 02:10 pm

All of this does give him 5% redemption (imo) but i cant forget the scars on poor Bens face. If he had actually witnessed Benjamin killing Shannon then i could perhaps understand Sayid's need to beat the heck out of him..but in the absence of evidence people cant take the law into their own hands like that..not even in the wild.

And the thing that really worries me is that Sayid now feels justified inhis actions..he feels that suspicion is now the way to treat people. This is so foolish.. and i 'fear' that Sayids actions may well cost Sun her baby or life?..afterall, Picketts gonna be wanted some sweet revenge..

But if he has already suffered from a breakdown (as you previously claimed) then surely he wasn't entirely in control of his actions - all rationality went out the window and he responded based purely on emotions, with no logical thinking.

In a way though, many of the other survivors treat people with suspicion - Sawyer does to an immense extent. The only unfortunate difference is that Sawyer is more capable of keeping it mainly held in his head after killing Frank - whereas Sayid doesn't try to fight against it or use it in a strategic way.

[Audio Pineapple]

Originally Posted by Kiowa Warrior,November 24, 2006 07:26 pm

Yes, I'd agree with the general opinion here that Sayid's mental state isn't a particularly healthy one. And I'd also agree that when Sayid comes back into camp, most of the remaining survivors will look to him to be the camp's leader. But this then makes me worry for the way they could then begin to act: no doubt everyone will eventually find out that Jack, Kate and Sawyer have been taken by the Others (from Hurley I'd guess), and then they will hear about how the Others tried to kill Sun, Sayid and Jin, and that the boat was stolen. So as well as being scared, I'd guess that the survivors would be feeling a great deal of anger towards the Others as well, and they could then urge Sayid into leading - or supporting - a violent plan against the Others, and if Sayid becomes caught up in it then I fear that his mental state will deteriorate even more.

I was wondering about a mass attack launched against the Others because, so far, we have only seen a vigilante type of justice - where one person attacks another or two people (in the case of Sayid and Jack versus Sawyer and Sayid and Locke versus Ben) but no large group or section - not even Jack's barely-developed army have gone after someone.

Makes me think that the castaways couldn't cope with that. They can't even follow Bernard's orders to lug rocks nevermind Sayid saying "capture people, kill people and allow me free reign to torture and oh, by the way, could you hand me my good spikes."

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Audio Pineapple,November 24, 2006 09:40 pm

But if he has already suffered from a breakdown (as you previously claimed) then surely he wasn't entirely in control of his actions - all rationality went out the window and he responded based purely on emotions, with no logical thinking.

In a way though, many of the other survivors treat people with suspicion - Sawyer does to an immense extent. The only unfortunate difference is that Sawyer is more capable of keeping it mainly held in his head after killing Frank - whereas Sayid doesn't try to fight against it or use it in a strategic way.

Just because he's suffered a breakdown it doesnt make his actions ok or understandable. I mean most mass murderers have breakdowns im sure..yet it doesnt mean that we should start offering them blind sympathy.

I feel for the man in some aspects..yet he has clearly shown that he is not strong enough or intelligent enough to handle the situation without wanting to murder people. I mean the moment i heard him mention taking tow hostages and killing the rest of them..well..surely that says it all?

Yes, the man needs help..but for me he's just not as easy to sympathise with than say Ana or even the likes of Chucky.

Redemption is a road Sayid has turned his back on one to many times, i fear.

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,November 25, 2006 09:34 am

I feel for the man in some aspects..yet he has clearly shown that he is not strong enough or intelligent enough to handle the situation without wanting to murder people. I mean the moment i heard him mention taking tow hostages and killing the rest of them..well..surely that says it all?

I've got to argue against the idea that he lacks intelligence... I think he's making some faintly absurd decisions at the moment (the ease with which he thinks he could kill an undefined number of people who may be very well armed is alarming), but I certainly don't think he's anything approaching unintelligent. He's not, sadly, broken out of his conditioning that states torture is legitimate and worthwhile and open warfare is the best way to deal with this kind of attack - or rather, he had, but he lapsed back into it when Shannon was killed. Having been a successful soldier in that sort of regime must be an easy mindset to fall back into. I don't think it implies stupidity: just sickness, desperation and a depressing lack of imagination.