Sayid's Mental State

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd,November 25, 2006 10:39 am

I've got to argue against the idea that he lacks intelligence... I think he's making some faintly absurd decisions at the moment (the ease with which he thinks he could kill an undefined number of people who may be very well armed is alarming), but I certainly don't think he's anything approaching unintelligent. He's not, sadly, broken out of his conditioning that states torture is legitimate and worthwhile and open warfare is the best way to deal with this kind of attack - or rather, he had, but he lapsed back into it when Shannon was killed. Having been a successful soldier in that sort of regime must be an easy mindset to fall back into. I don't think it implies stupidity: just sickness, desperation and a depressing lack of imagination.

I didnt say he lacks intelligence..i said that he lacks intelligence to deal with this situation without resorting to murder (quite a big difference there )

I do agree with your assessment that he lapsed back into his 'soldier state of mind' and that this was partly caused by the death of Shannon.

You say that it must be easy for Sayid to fall back into that state of mnd considering the type of occupation that he once had ..this is true..it's a shame however that Ana wasnt extended the same 'product of ones environment' sympathy

Anyhoo, i do agree that Sayid is intelligent..i just feel that right now he's not intelligent or open minded enough to see that torture and murder is not the way.

[Murgatroyd]

Hey, I think it's a shame that we can't have a discussion about unrelated issues without this cry of YOU HYPOCRITICAL BEASTS DIDN'T AFFORD ANA LUCIA THE SAME CONSIDERATION coming into the conversation regardless of whether or not it's relevant or even true, but that's life.

[D-Roc]

As Locke once said: "it's all relative"..

Sometimes in order to make sense of context, we have to compare past events/issues..

I think it's natural to assume that as the series progressess the likes of Ana and Libby will be referred to less? So fear not.

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,November 25, 2006 02:38 pm

As Locke once said: "it's all relative"..

Sometimes in order to make sense of context, we have to compare past events/issues..

I think it's natural to assume that as the series progressess the likes of Ana and Libby will be referred to less? So fear not.

I hope so, actually, because I don't really want to doctor all my statements pre-posting so it reads as though I dislike every character just as much as I do Ana Lucia or consider that everyone has equal mit circs, because I honestly don't... I just can't, offhand, think of any other way to keep her out of the conversation....

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd,November 25, 2006 03:46 pm

I hope so, actually, because I don't really want to doctor all my statements pre-posting so it reads as though I dislike every character just as much as I do Ana Lucia or consider that everyone has equal mit circs, because I honestly don't... I just can't, offhand, think of any other way to keep her out of the conversation....

Fair dues..

I agree that a situation deserves to be judged on it's own merits and all of that.. Personally i think that alot of the current judgements on characters highlight 'my opinion' that Ana was unfairly judged/treated..but anyway, perhaps it's time to let go of Ana..and im sure as we progress her memory will remain intact but also be left to rest in peace.

I suppose theres value in using relativity in the current context. Though i personally will always value the concept of past and present comparison.

Anyhoo, I will mention Ana again ..but perhaps more sparingly in future..she deserves to rest in peace

[Murgatroyd]

I've no objection to discussing Ana as a seperate issue, or sometimes in context with other characters: I'm just a bit fearful of encountering her as an answer to every opinion held on someone completely different. There's a reason I've made no comment whatsoever on Sun's shooting Colleen in The Glass Ballerina, you know....

[D-Roc]

Personally I dont mind discussing on any level..but we will never ever agree about AL so i'll reduce my mention of her (in this sense) by 50%, say ..she's better off that way anyways

[Murgatroyd]

Don't censor yourself - talk about her all you want. The only thing that flummoxes me is a variation on the statement 'it's a shame however that Ana wasnt...' etc, because all the individual cases have been endlessly discussed elsewhere (Hordriss talked about precisely this issue with regard to Sayid's and Ana Lucia's respective backstories, for example) and yet still the phrase crops up, so for me it just shuts off all the discussion because I don't know to answer it anymore in a way that hasn't already previously been done to death. That's all. For the record, I don't think my stated dislike of the character negatively affects my consideration of her mit circs et al any more than your adoration of her positvely affects yours. Er... read that how you will....

[Kiowa Warrior]

Originally Posted by Audio Pineapple,November 24, 2006 08:52 pm

I was wondering about a mass attack launched against the Others because, so far, we have only seen a vigilante type of justice - where one person attacks another or two people (in the case of Sayid and Jack versus Sawyer and Sayid and Locke versus Ben) but no large group or section - not even Jack's barely-developed army have gone after someone.

Makes me think that the castaways couldn't cope with that. They can't even follow Bernard's orders to lug rocks nevermind Sayid saying "capture people, kill people and allow me free reign to torture and oh, by the way, could you hand me my good spikes."

Yeah it's true that the losties aren't shining examples of how to work best in a team, especially given their shocking lack of communication, but there are a couple of examples where they have worked together to protect their own: when Ethan threatened to come back and kill everyone a perimiter guard was set up and a plan was formed to capture him, and another plan was made to use Claire as bait to capture him in the jungle which worked perfectly.

I think that with plans such as the SOS sign the losties only half heartedly work at it, because their immidiate survival is not at stake. But when it was discovered that an Other had infiltrated the camp and was a danger to them all, then a lot of people got fired up and worked together to get rid of that threat.

When you life and the lives of your friends are at stake, people are capable of extraordinary things, and if Sayid were to present the activites of the Others in such a way then I think that people will believe him and trust him, and either urge him onto an an agressive plan of action or support one he comes up with himself. I'm not suggesting that the whole camp will run screaming across the island towards the Others brandishing flaming torches, but at least a few people will want revenge and, at the very least, the camp will unite even further in the face of such new information about the Others.

[Audio Pineapple]

Well there's been a couple of episodes since I brought this up and Sayid seems to have stabalized, at least a bit. He hasn't grabbed a gun and stormed off into the jungle and, so far, he hasn't forced Locke's hand in anything, sticking to his right-hand-man role. The closest he came was one sentance objecting to Desmond coming to the Pearl Hatch.

Although if Kate gets back I'm not sure what the future will hold in stall for him.