Sayid: Does he deserve a beating?

[D-Roc]

The irony is supreme..Jack being held captive in a similar way to how he (and Sayid) held Ben captive in the Swan (though Jack is being treated far better imo).

But I wonder, should the Others capture Sayid or for some reason take him..does he deserve to be strung up and beaten just like how he beat down on Benjamin?

Should Ben execute revenge on his former torturer?

What will this say about Ben if he decides not to take revenge? Would it show just what a great man he truely is?

[The_abbott]

Has Ben said Sayid was a bad person or not? I don't think he has. Sayid has only done what Picket has done so it may be that he sees Sayid just as a follower of Jack and underneath a good guy.

[Verix]

Ahhhh more pro other properganda here from Kor-Evo (what a suprise :P ).

I feel if Bem were to 'beat down' on Sayid it would be purely through revenge. Sayid was acting out of desperation for losing Shannon and was trying to keep the losties safe from the other. And i can understand why. To be fair the others made the first move in capturing Claire and Charlie, almost killing the latter. Sayid wanted no more death at the hands of the others.

Ben on the other hand lives in his nice little village with a wealth of guns and a way to get off the island (apparantly) so he's already safe and comfy and at home. He'd just be hurting Sayid for revenge, which if you ask me is an awfully petty motive for 'the good guys' to have, don't you?

[The_other_other]

here we go again on Ben korevo :P .

Ok, no, i dont thnk Ben will take revenge, but not because he is a 'good person' but because i dont think he has human feelings of revenge, compassion like everyone else. I honestly dont think Ben is completely human, he says he was brought up on the island, well its my idea that he is the product of some kind of experiment on the island by dharma about 40 years ago.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by The_abbott,November 22, 2006 11:45 am

Has Ben said Sayid was a bad person or not? I don't think he has. Sayid has only done what Picket has done so it may be that he sees Sayid just as a follower of Jack and underneath a good guy.

I dont think Ben has expressed any opinion on Sayid other than sacastically mocking the mans 'fists of fury' to Locke(?)

He maywell se Sayid as just a follower..i hope he doesnt blame Jack for everything though ..Sayid is not one to be controlled or led by anyone, he's his own man and should be treated as such by Benjamin. Wonder if he's got a spare 'room' going

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Verix,November 22, 2006 11:46 am

Ahhhh more pro other properganda here from Kor-Evo (what a suprise  :P ).

I feel if Bem were to 'beat down' on Sayid it would be purely through revenge. Sayid was acting out of desperation for losing Shannon and was trying to keep the losties safe from the other. And i can understand why. To be fair the others made the first move in capturing Claire and Charlie, almost killing the latter. Sayid wanted  no more death at the hands of the others.

Ben on the other hand lives in his nice little village with a wealth of guns and a way to get off the island (apparantly) so he's already safe and comfy and at home. He'd just be hurting Sayid for revenge, which if you ask me is an awfully petty motive for 'the good guys' to have, don't you?

Lol,

Hmm, im not sure that Ben has anymore guns at his disposal that Sayid and his pals do.. and at least Ben's people are not overzealous in using them..

I dont understand why it would be bad of Ben to take some rightful retribution. Im not promoting revenge and im sure Ben's a bigger man than Sayid and so doesnt need to stoop to Sayid's (current) level, but by all rights Sayid can't complain if Ben sticks his size 10's in his grill (face). I just cant wait to see what plans (if any) Benjamin has for Sayid

You mentioned that if Ben hurt Sayid, he'd just be doing it for revenge - but then what was Sayid beating the poor man into a pulp for?..surely revenge over Shannon...(and he didnt even know that Ben was even one of them or responsible for her death at that stage)

[The_abbott]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,November 22, 2006 01:55 pm

Lol,

Hmm, im not sure that Ben has anymore guns at his disposal that Sayid and his pals do.. and at least Ben's people are not overzealous in using them..

I dont understand why it would be bad of Ben to take some rightful retribution. Im not promoting revenge and im sure Ben's a bigger man than Sayid and so doesnt need to stoop to Sayid's (current) level, but by all rights Sayid can't complain if Ben sticks his size 10's in his grill (face). I just cant wait to see what plans (if any) Benjamin has for Sayid

You mentioned that if Ben hurt Sayid, he'd just be doing it for revenge - but then what was Sayid beating the poor man into a pulp for?..surely revenge over Shannon...(and he didnt even know that Ben was even one of them or responsible for her death at that stage)

We don't know that Ben controls the whispers that led to Shannon's death. I blame the quick firing Ana Lucia for her death and so should Sayid!

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by The_other_other,November 22, 2006 12:16 pm

here we go again on Ben korevo :P .

Ok, no, i dont thnk Ben will take revenge, but not because he is a 'good person' but because i dont think he has human feelings of revenge, compassion like everyone else. I honestly dont think Ben is completely human, he says he was brought up on the island, well its my idea that he is the product of some kind of experiment on the island by dharma about 40 years ago.

Lol,

Poor Ben..not sure what he's done to deserve so much suspicion and scorn

I agree, he keeps his emotions close to his chest, but theres nothing wrong with that. Im not sure that he's a Dharma experiment from 40 years ago, since Dharma only came to the island in the 80's (as far as we know anyway)..but i suppose he 'could' well be the product of another research agency or something.. theres definetely something going on with him..

Btw, and a bit off-topic..but are those contacts that Emerson is wearing or his natural eyes? Were his eye's that sparkly in S2?

[The_abbott]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,November 22, 2006 01:59 pm

Lol,

Poor Ben..not sure what he's done to deserve so much suspicion and scorn

I agree, he keeps his emotions close to his chest, but theres nothing wrong with that. Im not sure that he's a Dharma experiment from 40 years ago, since Dharma only came to the island in the 80's (as far as we know anyway)..but i suppose he 'could' well be the product of another research agency or something.. theres definetely something going on with him..

Btw, and a bit off-topic..but are those contacts that Emerson is wearing or his natural eyes? Were his eye's that sparkly in S2?

they look like contact lenses in the shot when he looks up at the plane. I noticed they looked odd when I watched it. At one moment he looked like he had serpant eyes with the pupil very thin!

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by The_abbott,November 22, 2006 03:07 pm

they look like contact lenses in the shot when he looks up at the plane. I noticed they looked odd when I watched it. At one moment he looked like he had serpant eyes with the pupil very thin!

Yeah, i noticed they looked pretty creepy on a couple of occasions..they must be contacts!

[Verix]

lol, Kor-Evo.

I'm pretty sure that Ben and co do have more guns than our losties. Our losties have already lost most of their guns to the others as it is and Pickett had a very different looking gun to any that were down the hatch armory previously, implying that they already had a stock of guns to begin with. Also the losties weren't particularly overzealous in using them. Unless by use you mean carry but even then the others seem to have a gun in hand in every scene (bar Jack's).

'Rightful retribution'? Sayid was acting out of understandable human emotions, fear, loss and revenege. Revenge for a death, a death of someone he loved. What's more, he was trying to get information, he was trying to make Ben slip up, which he did, in revealing he didn't know enough about his 'wife's' grave. I'm not conddoning torture, but Sayid's actions were fuelled by many more things than pure revenge. I'd also say that Sayid would have every right to 'complain' if he was beaten by Ben. Two wrongs don't make a right and by atacking him Ben couldn't even pretend to be doing it for a higher/ better 'cause than revenge or pure sadism.

You said that Sayid didn't know that Ben was responisble however he had been a torturer and a large part of torture is not pain but psychology. He knew by hurting him physically he could break him down menatlly (again not condonning it). Sayid obviously recognised the tell tale symtoms of a liar. I know you have a problem with Sayid and with his torturing, which i can understand, but his actions have all been, from my POV understandable although not condonable. The others' actions have been neither of the two ad yet you stick up for them blindly?

As Inman said to Sayid once "Loyalty is a virtue. But unquestioning loyalty -- I don't think that's you." i think the same could be said for you Kor-Evo and you other loving ways. :P

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Verix

lol, Kor-Evo.

I'm pretty sure that Ben and co do have more guns than our losties. Our losties have already lost most of their guns to the others as it is and Pickett had a very different looking gun to any that were down the hatch armory previously, implying that they already had a stock of guns to begin with. Also the losties weren't particularly overzealous in using them. Unless by use you mean carry but even then the others seem to have a gun in hand in every scene (bar Jack's).

You might be right, maybe the Others do have more guns in thier possession than the losties - but then look at how many of the Others have been killed by a gun toting lostie (Ethan, Colleen, Other in the jungle, Ben - almost!) the list oges on and on..the only time that the Others have used the guns is to deter - like when they grazed James' ear or when they 'wanted to deliver a message'..as Alex even admitted.

'Rightful retribution'? Sayid was acting out of understandable human emotions, fear, loss and revenege. Revenge for a death, a death of someone he loved. What's more, he was trying to get information, he was trying to make Ben slip up, which he did, in revealing he didn't know enough about his 'wife's' grave.

Well Juliet and Ben are trying to extract info from Jack, yet i dont see them crucifying the man or beating him into a pulp! On the contrary, theyre giving him Tv to watch and letting him know things from his past! I know which i'd prefer..and it aint Sayid's methods..

I'm not conddoning torture, but Sayid's actions were fuelled by many more things than pure revenge. I'd also say that Sayid would have every right to 'complain' if he was beaten by Ben. Two wrongs don't make a right and by atacking him Ben couldn't even pretend to be doing it for a higher/ better 'cause than revenge or pure sadism.

Hmm, i agree with the anti-torture stance..but i just think that Sayid wouldnt have a leg to stand on if Ben tied him to a pole and beat on him..it would be wrong but then so was what Sayid did..

But like i said i dont think Ben would stoop to Sayid's level of immorality :P

You said that Sayid didn't know that Ben was responisble however he had been a torturer and a large part of torture is not pain but psychology.

So that makes it al right then? lol, i just dont have as much faith in Sayids luck..sorry, i mean 'judgement' as some do

He knew by hurting him physically he could break him down menatlly (again not condonning it). Sayid obviously recognised the tell tale symtoms of a liar.

But such a thing doesnt exist surely? I mean whose to say that these 'tell tale signs' werent just the reactions of a man scared for his very life!? In the absense of absolute evidence, restraint should be sought. Sayid couldve been completely wring about Ben..what then? What if he was wrong...

I know you have a problem with Sayid and with his torturing, which i can understand, but his actions have all been, from my POV understandable although not condonable. The others' actions have been neither of the two ad yet you stick up for them blindly?

Dont get me wrong, i used to adore Sayid..truely i did..he was a fanstastic man, even after what he di to James i still liked him..but he's gone too far now. IN fact it's more his actions than the man himself that i have issues with - the day his boot came crashing down on Ben's face was the day that i saw a different side to Sayid..an ugly side

I dont stick up for the Others blindly - in fact i condemed Ben for rasing his hands to Ana-Lucia..and ive all but washed my hands of Zeke and his overzeolous nature. Thats the thing..i dont judge them on the basis of one or two individuals..i think that the likes of Ben, klugh, Goodwin and Juliet have done not much wrong. Ben in particular seems like a decent fella..sure he's a bit off-key but so's Locke..and there aint much wrong with our Locke

If the Others do something that i disagree with then i'd condem them..just like i did with the blowing up of the raft.. but for now, im reserving judgement on them because we still dont know them from Adam yet.

As Inman said to Sayid once "Loyalty is a virtue. But unquestioning loyalty -- I don't think that's you." i think the same could be said for you Kor-Evo and you other loving ways

lol, clever quote..i'll give you that ..i do question them though..im not shy of critising Ben just because he's fast becoming my 2nd favourite. I feel that im fair with my views on them - afterall we still know so little about them and what ive seen on Ben, Juliet, Goodwin and Klugh, ive liked so far. Sure theyre not perfect..but they dont prefess to be - all they profess to be are 'the good guys'..and you know what..after seeing our lot go barmy in S2..who's to say Ben's wrong..?