Sayid: Does he deserve a beating?

[The_other_other]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,November 24, 2006 12:03 pm

Sayids a "good boy"??

Im not sure Beachy..after what he did to Benry, i think he's all out of 'good'. If that was Sawyer that he beat on again would you still be saying Sayids good?

korevo, sawyers sawyer, and benrys benry. Thats all there is to it

[StoneRose]

Do we really want to go down the road of tit for tat though?

I'm actually quite torn on this, I can kind of understand why sayid tortured Benry and Sawyer but I dont agree with it and think he was wrong to do so. There were other ways to go about this, and really he never got the truth out of either of them anyway so I dont actually think he's very good.

I can also see why Benry would want revenge and if he beat up sayid I can see where he's coming from with it. I doubt Benry would do this though.

Really, who does Sayid think he is taking it upon himself to torture people? Are his intentions ultimately good in that he wants to protect the losties? Or is he just a very evil man?

To answer the question, No I dont think he deserves a beating as I genuinly believe he thought he was doing the right thing in torturing Benry to get the truth out of him. I do think he was in the wrong to do this though. Also if he did get a beating, I wouldnt be that sympathetic towards him.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by The_other_other,November 24, 2006 01:11 pm

korevo, sawyers sawyer, and benrys benry. Thats all there is to it

Yes, they are different..but what gives Sayid the right to beat on Benry..it wasnt so long ago that many of us were outraged that he tortured Sawyer half to death I just feel that Benry deserves a bit of sympathey too. Afterall, look how he ignored the chance of taking retribution on Sayid by just asking for the boat and not the man. That to me suggests that he is more forgiving than he gave himself credit for back in 2x20 - "he's a great man John, but he is not a forgiving man" (if indeed he was talking about himself ) It takes alot to turn the 'Other' cheek

[Beach Crew]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,November 24, 2006 12:03 pm

Sayids a "good boy"??

Im not sure Beachy..after what he did to Benry, i think he's all out of 'good'. If that was Sawyer that he beat on again would you still be saying Sayids good?

But for the most part he was good, at least when Shannon was alive anyways.

God no, if he beat Sawyer again, Sayid and I would part ways...he just needs another chance.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Beach Crew,November 24, 2006 02:09 pm

But for the most part he was good, at least when Shannon was alive anyways.

God no, if he beat Sawyer again, Sayid and I would part ways...he just needs another chance.

Yes, he was good for about 20 days..Shannon brought out the best in him..the real Sayid i would say..and he did the same to her imo.

It's just that i have trouble with the idea that it's ok to beat down on poor Benry but not our fave characters..i mean, surely wrong is wrong?

[The_abbott]

technically no.


Example:

Murder is wrong

helping someone teminally ill to die isn't (well IMO)

so, whereas the others have the manuscripts on everybody and know which lostees are good or bad, the lostees can only go by instinct and Sayid is a solider and serves to protect whatever the cost.

[Cavegirl]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,November 24, 2006 11:59 am

Im not advocating it..im merely suggesting that Sayid couldnt complain if Benjiman beat on him.
Nor would he, I expect. He's not much of a whiner, is he? I'm sure he fully expects Benry - and the other Others - to act towards him and his friends with violence. I bet in his mind they are The Enemy, in a very military sense. Hence his happy attitude to killing all but two, and torturing one of them to make the other talk. He's confused by the situation and falling back into his default wartime behaviour patterns.

It just strikes me as odd that Sayid can receive so much support and claim of 'diminished responsonsibility, yet others dont..

Im not convinced that Bens views are skewed - certainly not anymore so than the likes of Sayid. Notice how when Colleen informs him that Sayid is on a boat and might find them, he doesnt tell her to bring him to the Hydra so that he can torture him (ala Sayid)..instead all he asks for is the boat..which suggests to me that Ben is a more than decent human..again, he could easily take revenge on Sayid yet takes the high road. Sayid could learn a lesson or 2 from him perhaps.
But again, here, Benry is advocating theft. He is telling his people to take a boat which doesn't belong to him. Furthermore, for the survivors, it may be essential to their eventual survival and/or escape. Why does this provide evidence of his benevolence?

Yes, Sayid is unwell..but so was Ana and she got outright slated..

Not by me. I always like her.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by The_abbott,November 24, 2006 02:21 pm

technically no.


Example:

Murder is wrong

helping someone teminally ill to die isn't (well IMO)

so, whereas the others have the manuscripts on everybody and know which lostees are good or bad, the lostees can only go by instinct and Sayid is a solider and serves to protect whatever the cost.

Hmm, i have difficulty with this: "protect whatever the cost"

..because what if the cost is the collateral damage of his own losties (ie Sun) or potential innocents like Ben?

I preferred it when Sayid 'was' a soldier..in the sense that, that part of his life was behind him..now he's reverted back he seems so crazed and deluded. I hope he stays away from Locke..if Sayid goes down, then he should go down on his own and not drag others into it

[Beach Crew]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,November 24, 2006 01:11 pm

Yes, he was good for about 20 days..Shannon brought out the best in him..the real Sayid i would say..and he did the same to her imo.

It's just that i have trouble with the idea that it's ok to beat down on poor Benry but not our fave characters..i mean, surely wrong is wrong?

That's the Sayid I grew to love, that's the Sayid we need on our said, but I don't see him heading back in that direction anytime soon.

I think it's more coz we believed Henry/Fenry/Benry....ARGH....to be a bad guy, pure evil, that everyone was quite happy for what Sayid did to him. I still don't mind, as such. It depends on how things work out with the others in the next few eppys.

[Murgatroyd]

What's all this 'beating on'? Some new fangled modern slang with which I'm not au fait? Where I come from, people just beat.

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,November 24, 2006 11:59 am

Yes, Sayid is unwell..but so was Ana and she got outright slated..

It's a matter of personal opinion, but I don't think she was unwell. I think she was very much affected by events in her backstory that altered the decisions she made, but I never saw a moment as irrational from her as Sayid's almost shooting Henry then bursting into tears. She always seemed essentially rational (on her own terms) to me.

[Cavegirl]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd,November 24, 2006 03:45 pm

I never saw a moment as irrational from her as Sayid's almost shooting Henry then bursting into tears.

Isn't this pretty much what she did in "Two for the road"? Before handing the gun over to Michael. And what about just after shooting Shannon, when she went waving the gun around, very shaky and wild. I think she was every bit as emotionally disturbed as Sayid, and I also think they're quite similar people.

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by Cavegirl,November 24, 2006 04:01 pm

Isn't this pretty much what she did in "Two for the road"? Before handing the gun over to Michael. And what about just after shooting Shannon, when she went waving the gun around, very shaky and wild. I think she was every bit as emotionally disturbed as Sayid, and I also think they're quite similar people.

Not in my view. The Michael incident seemed very unspontaneous to me - she planned successfully how to get a gun, she quite calmly went to carry out her execution and she broke down because she failed. She spoke rationally about why she failed and then decided to have a second pop at it by giving Michael the gun. I don't think she was particularly irrational at all there really. As I say though, people do observe things very differently.

Post Shannon's death, she did seem quite irrational, yes, though not in a mental breakdown way (as I think Sayid was) so much as an 'Oh goodness I've just killed a woman and now this man's going to kill me' sort of a way. And her decision at the end of the episode (letting Sayid go and choosing, to her credit, to face up to what she'd done) seemed reasonably, calmly and sanely arrived at - Sayid, after all, didn't possess the sanity to recant his decision: he actually fired and was luckily deflected. I actually don't consider Ana was, during her time on the island, in danger of a nervous breakdown. I think Sayid's smack bang in the middle of one.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Cavegirl,November 24, 2006 05:01 pm

Isn't this pretty much what she did in "Two for the road"? Before handing the gun over to Michael. And what about just after shooting Shannon, when she went waving the gun around, very shaky and wild. I think she was every bit as emotionally disturbed as Sayid, and I also think they're quite similar people.

I couldnt agree more CG, I couldnt agree more..

I agree, Ana did have a breakdown on both of those occasions that you mention. After the Shannon accident she clearly suffered a breakdown..all of her demons came flooding back to her and she went into 'defensive' mode. Likewise, upon her redemption in 2ftR she suffered a breakdown after Benry almost killed her (most women would after being attacked/assulted)..thankfully she still managed to uphold a moral decency by not enacting revenge..but still she did suffer a breakdown.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd,November 24, 2006 04:39 pm

What's all this 'beating on'? Some new fangled modern slang with which I'm not au fait? Where I come from, people just beat.

It's our differences that make the world go round