Will Sayid ever stop torturing? - Lost Community Forums - Official Spoiler-free Lost Fansite

Audio Pineapple · 10-25-2006, 12:10 PM

We still don't know why Sayid left the Republican Guard or anything in the seven years between then and when he was forced to infiltrate Essam's terrorism group but, taking basis on his experiences on the island… can Sayid ever stop torturing?

Stopping After: One of Them Flashback

Here we saw Sayid, an ordinary soldier. Yet, sometime between then and Solitary he was a torturer. He said that he was never going to torture again so what happened? Is there a reason why he didn’t stop?

Stopping After: Leaving the R. Guard

Having somehow managed to leave the Republican Guard, surely he had the opportunity to put the past behind him? To move on with his life as any other ordinary human being? But then we had a certain incident which leads me onto…

Stopping After: Confidence Man

I’m sure I wasn’t the only one who was drawn into believing that Sayid had atoned for what he had inflicted upon Sawyer after he left the island – believing that he didn’t deserve to be a part of their society. He returned with news of Danielle, maps of the island and for over a season’s worth of episodes (or about a month in Lost-Land) he appeared as though he wouldn’t go down that path again. Until…

Stopping After: One of Them

Faced with the prospect of Walt being kidnapped and being faced with who could (or at the time, could easily not have been) an Other, Sayid seemed almost eager to return to his old habits, desperate to enact some form of vengeance for the death of Shannon that he felt unable to enact upon Ana-Lucia.

So… is there any hope for Sayid? Is being a torturer all he is and all he ever will be? He tends to distance himself from the other castaways, barely having more than the occasional, casual conversation with them – imposing solitariness upon himself, which has increased since Shannon’s death. Now that Jack, Kate and Sawyer have all been kidnapped, the castaways have lost their leader. It seems unlikely that Locke would step up to the plate considering his recent mental state and it is unlikely that many of the castaways would accept him regardless. So if they have lost the doctor they may turn to the next authority figure (no – not the dentist, although I’m sure Bernard would be happy to oblige) the soldier. If placed into power, Sayid will become more isolated from the castaways, and I think that there is a link around him that says that the more people he is around, the more social interaction, even if it is just meaningless conversations, the less chance of him torturing once more.

So… is he doomed to torture once again or does he have a realistic chance of rising above it?

daviePOSEIDON · 10-25-2006, 01:27 PM

I love the title of this thread!

***D-Roc*** · 10-25-2006, 07:22 PM

Sayid.

Now there's a man i have issues with. Only Bernard can rival him (and Kate..but thats standard :P )

Hmm, will Sayid ever stop torturing? My answer is 'unlikely'. Like you i believed that he had atoned for his dreadful crime on Saywer

He seems to be a perpetual ball of regression. If i had a piece of advice for Sayid it would be to keep his hands and boots to himself..that way you cant hurt people!

For a man who at times has such integrity and is capable fo acting like a true Gent..he has this regrettable flaw. And whislt we all have flaws since we are human..Sayids flaws gripe with me. You dont tie people to tree and stick bamboo up their nails and then cry murder when someone goes and ties you to a tree a few weeks later

Sayid once asked Charlie if he'd "forgotten"...well, perhaps Sayid should ask himself..has he forgotten Tariq, Sawyer and countless others?

Imo, Sayid should take a leaf out of Ana's book. Whilst she was never as unjustified as him, she did manage to change her ways. She proved Goodwin right..she gave up her revenge laden streak and turned in her gun. Now, Sayid need to go back to the Shannon-charmer that we love and turn in his guns, boots, fists, pliers and bamboo!

knotty101 · 10-25-2006, 07:59 PM

I pity the fool that crosses him next. BLT he reminds me of Mr T

***Kiowa Warrior*** · 10-26-2006, 12:39 PM

I also thought that Sayid had changed for good - and for the better - after torturing Sawyer, and it was quite a shock to see him lay into Henry so heavily, and even more so when Sayid was about to execute him at point blank range.

I think that Sayid really does want to change, and not be defined by his status as a torturer, but even in the best of circumstances I can imagine that it will be very difficult to completley break away from such a trait that you have had forced onto you. Shannon's death no doubt played a big part on Sayid's torture of Henry, and without her influence it was easy to slip back into his old ways. I agree that Sayid wouldn't be so violent/have such thoughts of torture if he spent more time with more people. But he doesn't seem to have any close friends on the island, so it will be difficult. I think that most people are reluctant to get to know him better, so it will have to be Sayid who makes the first move. I don't particularly like Sayid, but I would be very happy to see him put down his pliars for good and not torture again.

Audio Pineapple · 10-26-2006, 01:01 PM

I agree Ki about the relevance of Shannon's death. In my opinion this has pushed him back, made him cross the line. He told Ana after her death that there would be no point in killing her because he is already dead so perhaps feeling anything, even if it is power (and possible regret) via torturing is better than feeling nothing at all.

I still think that there is a chance he could change. He originally sacrificed his relationship with Shannon by refusing to harm Locke (and even attempting to stop her harming him) after Boone's death and he refused to take revenge on Ana. I think that he will only torture those who he believes to be wrong (Sawyer 'stealing' the medication and Henry for Shannon's death and Walt's kidnapping.)

He still has some control over these impulses and I think that it does show some promise... although whether it is enough we will have to wait and see.

The_abbott · 10-26-2006, 01:08 PM

I too believe that Shannons death is responisble for the subsequent tortures. When he was with Shannon he was a nice guy (although would he have killed if Shannon could have been saved?). Strange that a girl lie Shannon could tame the beast shall we say.

Also, maybe after he thought Nadia was dead he did the same thing. It seems when hes in love hes a nice chap but when hes not getting any he turns violent. Maybe he should flog the bishop?

Audio Pineapple · 10-26-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_abbott,October 26, 2006 12:08 pm

I too believe that Shannons death is responisble for the subsequent tortures. When he was with Shannon he was a nice guy (although would he have killed if Shannon could have been saved?). Strange that a girl lie Shannon could tame the beast shall we say.

Also, maybe after he thought Nadia was dead he did the same thing. It seems when hes in love hes a nice chap but when hes not getting any he turns violent. Maybe he should flog the bishop?

Just remembered one of my favourite Lost quotes "hope is a very dangerous thing to lose"

It does seem this way with him. He had hope when he was searching for Nadia but not after he crashed (then tortured Sawyer) and he had hope for a better life when he was with Shannon but not when she was dead (then tortured Henry) so maybe we need to find him another woman. How about Kate... because then if she survives Sayid won't go round attacking people... and if she doesn't survive we win anyway!

I'm also wondering if Henry lying and saying that he had to 'bury his wife' played a large part in sending Sayid back over the edge (with regards to Ana just pushing the gun out of the way in time before he shot at Henry) as it would have been a kick in the face that he blamed the Others already... but to then have them tell that specific lie.

The_abbott · 10-26-2006, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audio Pineapple,October 26, 2006 11:17 am

Just remembered one of my favourite Lost quotes "hope is a very dangerous thing to lose"

It does seem this way with him. He had hope when he was searching for Nadia but not after he crashed (then tortured Sawyer) and he had hope for a better life when he was with Shannon but not when she was dead (then tortured Henry) so maybe we need to find him another woman. How about Kate... because then if she survives Sayid won't go round attacking people... and if she doesn't survive we win anyway!

LOL Audio about Kate LOL!!!

Audio Pineapple · 10-26-2006, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_abbott,October 26, 2006 12:33 pm

LOL Audio about Kate LOL!!!

Well it would be a win-win situation. Although I'd be tempted to sacrifice Sayid's sanity to get rid of her.

***E Pluribus Unum*** · 10-26-2006, 07:55 PM

I think the Sayid situation is a lose - lose

If he ever stopped 'torturing' he'd lose his 'umph' [i.e. no storyline] Watching him torture people and have that 'inner battle' with himself is great TV [though that's rather controversial lol] but you know what I mean...

If he keeps torturing people, he'll probably become hated [and rightly so] by the masses [a la Ana]....

For me I hope he stays as controversial as he is as he's great to watch when he's like that

...And of course it gives us great moral and ethical discussions!!

Like J Locke I love to watch him but I'd hate to meet him in a dark ally

~~**St. Anger**~~ · 10-26-2006, 08:56 PM

Sayid would never have tortured Locke as the man had told everyone it was an accident and Locke didn't do anything sinister.

As for Kate, back off you Kate Haters!

Audio Pineapple · 10-26-2006, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St. Anger (o'_'o),October 26, 2006 07:56 pm

Sayid would never have tortured Locke as the man had told everyone it was an accident and Locke didn't do anything sinister.

As for Kate, back off you Kate Haters!

Although we didn't have proof that Henry had done anything wrong before Sayid went after him.

Never!

~~**St. Anger**~~ · 10-27-2006, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audio Pineapple,October 26, 2006 07:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by St. Anger (o'_'o),October 26, 2006 07:56 pm

Sayid would never have tortured Locke as the man had told everyone it was an accident and Locke didn't do anything sinister.

As for Kate, back off you Kate Haters!

Although we didn't have proof that Henry had done anything wrong before Sayid went after him.

Never!

But the difference between Henry and Locke is that we didn't know who Henry was and is was all a bit suspicious, ........ especially being on a island where these so called "Others" kill and kidnap people. So of course Henry was prime suspect #1.

I don't agree with his torturing, but I'm just trying to say Locke didn't do anything bad nor could Sayid say anything to justify Locke's torture. Whereas he could justify Henry's tortue to some degree as Sayid is an experienced interrogator and knew something didn't add up about Henry.

***D-Roc*** · 10-27-2006, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E PLURIBUS UNUM,October 26, 2006 06:55 pm

I think the Sayid situation is a lose - lose

If he ever stopped 'torturing' he'd lose his 'umph' [i.e. no storyline] Watching him torture people and have that 'inner battle' with himself is great TV [though that's rather controversial lol] but you know what I mean...

If he keeps torturing people, he'll probably become hated [and rightly so] by the masses [a la Ana]....

For me I hope he stays as controversial as he is as he's great to watch when he's like that

...And of course it gives us great moral and ethical discussions!!

Like J Locke I love to watch him but I'd hate to meet him in a dark ally

I see your point but i dont think Sayid needs to revert back to torturing to have 'umph'. I rather enjoyed seeing him become the moral barrometer after meeting Rousseau. It was interesting to see him become a man of reason and conduct himself in a firm yet gentlemanly way - think him extracting info about the hatch from Locke and refusing to kill Locke, as Shannon requested. That was good tv and made me warm to the man.

10-25-2006, 12:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
Audio Pineapple LuLu's Redemption Survivor Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,189	Will Sayid ever stop torturing? We still don't know why Sayid left the Republican Guard or anything in the seven years between then and when he was forced to infiltrate Essam's terrorism group but, taking basis on his experiences on the island… can Sayid ever stop torturing? Stopping After: One of Them Flashback Here we saw Sayid, an ordinary soldier. Yet, sometime between then and Solitary he was a torturer. He said that he was never going to torture again so what happened? Is there a reason why he didn’t stop? Stopping After: Leaving the R. Guard Having somehow managed to leave the Republican Guard, surely he had the opportunity to put the past behind him? To move on with his life as any other ordinary human being? But then we had a certain incident which leads me onto… Stopping After: Confidence Man I’m sure I wasn’t the only one who was drawn into believing that Sayid had atoned for what he had inflicted upon Sawyer after he left the island – believing that he didn’t deserve to be a part of their society. He returned with news of Danielle, maps of the island and for over a season’s worth of episodes (or about a month in Lost-Land) he appeared as though he wouldn’t go down that path again. Until… Stopping After: One of Them Faced with the prospect of Walt being kidnapped and being faced with who could (or at the time, could easily not have been) an Other, Sayid seemed almost eager to return to his old habits, desperate to enact some form of vengeance for the death of Shannon that he felt unable to enact upon Ana-Lucia. So… is there any hope for Sayid? Is being a torturer all he is and all he ever will be? He tends to distance himself from the other castaways, barely having more than the occasional, casual conversation with them – imposing solitariness upon himself, which has increased since Shannon’s death. Now that Jack, Kate and Sawyer have all been kidnapped, the castaways have lost their leader. It seems unlikely that Locke would step up to the plate considering his recent mental state and it is unlikely that many of the castaways would accept him regardless. So if they have lost the doctor they may turn to the next authority figure (no – not the dentist, although I’m sure Bernard would be happy to oblige) the soldier. If placed into power, Sayid will become more isolated from the castaways, and I think that there is a link around him that says that the more people he is around, the more social interaction, even if it is just meaningless conversations, the less chance of him torturing once more. So… is he doomed to torture once again or does he have a realistic chance of rising above it? __________________

10-25-2006, 01:27 PM	#2 (permalink)
daviePOSEIDON False Rescue Survivor Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,333	Will Sayid ever stop torturing? I love the title of this thread! __________________

10-25-2006, 07:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
*D-Roc* Hello Again :) Island Architect Tournaments Won: 1 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Locke's Heart Fave Character: Locke Lost Item: Crucifix Posts: 17,200	Will Sayid ever stop torturing? Sayid. Now there's a man i have issues with. Only Bernard can rival him (and Kate..but thats standard :P ) Hmm, will Sayid ever stop torturing? My answer is 'unlikely'. Like you i believed that he had atoned for his dreadful crime on Saywer He seems to be a perpetual ball of regression. If i had a piece of advice for Sayid it would be to keep his hands and boots to himself..that way you cant hurt people! For a man who at times has such integrity and is capable fo acting like a true Gent..he has this regrettable flaw. And whislt we all have flaws since we are human..Sayids flaws gripe with me. You dont tie people to tree and stick bamboo up their nails and then cry murder when someone goes and ties you to a tree a few weeks later Sayid once asked Charlie if he'd "forgotten"...well, perhaps Sayid should ask himself..has he forgotten Tariq, Sawyer and countless others? Imo, Sayid should take a leaf out of Ana's book. Whilst she was never as unjustified as him, she did manage to change her ways. She proved Goodwin right..she gave up her revenge laden streak and turned in her gun. Now, Sayid need to go back to the Shannon-charmer that we love and turn in his guns, boots, fists, pliers and bamboo! __________________ it all happened for a reason the hunter --- Following Ben Linus to the end of the wheel AND IN TURN, THE END OF TIME & SPACE Time is Not Linear, Hence it can be LOST

10-25-2006, 07:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
knotty101 The Journey Begins Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 7	Will Sayid ever stop torturing? I pity the fool that crosses him next. BLT he reminds me of Mr T

10-26-2006, 12:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
*Kiowa Warrior* OH-58D Island Warrior Resident Evil Apocalypse Champion!Tournaments Won: 1 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Locke's Right Hand Side Fave Character: Locke Lost Item: Hunting Knife Posts: 7,051 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 6	Will Sayid ever stop torturing? I also thought that Sayid had changed for good - and for the better - after torturing Sawyer, and it was quite a shock to see him lay into Henry so heavily, and even more so when Sayid was about to execute him at point blank range. I think that Sayid really does want to change, and not be defined by his status as a torturer, but even in the best of circumstances I can imagine that it will be very difficult to completley break away from such a trait that you have had forced onto you. Shannon's death no doubt played a big part on Sayid's torture of Henry, and without her influence it was easy to slip back into his old ways. I agree that Sayid wouldn't be so violent/have such thoughts of torture if he spent more time with more people. But he doesn't seem to have any close friends on the island, so it will be difficult. I think that most people are reluctant to get to know him better, so it will have to be Sayid who makes the first move. I don't particularly like Sayid, but I would be very happy to see him put down his pliars for good and not torture again. __________________ *You can't prove it won't happen...*

10-26-2006, 01:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
Audio Pineapple LuLu's Redemption Survivor Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,189	Will Sayid ever stop torturing? I agree Ki about the relevance of Shannon's death. In my opinion this has pushed him back, made him cross the line. He told Ana after her death that there would be no point in killing her because he is already dead so perhaps feeling anything, even if it is power (and possible regret) via torturing is better than feeling nothing at all. I still think that there is a chance he could change. He originally sacrificed his relationship with Shannon by refusing to harm Locke (and even attempting to stop her harming him) after Boone's death and he refused to take revenge on Ana. I think that he will only torture those who he believes to be wrong (Sawyer 'stealing' the medication and Henry for Shannon's death and Walt's kidnapping.) He still has some control over these impulses and I think that it does show some promise... although whether it is enough we will have to wait and see. __________________

10-26-2006, 01:08 PM	#7 (permalink)
The_abbott SHANNON'S BACK SCRUB Island Believer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Shannon's Bikini Fave Character: Shannon Lost Item: Sonic Fence Posts: 7,607 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 3	Will Sayid ever stop torturing? I too believe that Shannons death is responisble for the subsequent tortures. When he was with Shannon he was a nice guy (although would he have killed if Shannon could have been saved?). Strange that a girl lie Shannon could tame the beast shall we say. Also, maybe after he thought Nadia was dead he did the same thing. It seems when hes in love hes a nice chap but when hes not getting any he turns violent. Maybe he should flog the bishop? __________________ 0 Days to I'm on 6 months LC sabbatical Shannon's 'body'guard Winner of the Joke thread battle with FBF Winner of the DINNER is the evening meal thread FACT = Kate put the "ate" in "Hate"

10-26-2006, 07:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
*E Pluribus Unum* Movie-Lover Island Guardian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Twilight Zone Fave Character: Locke Lost Item: Rifle Posts: 3,467 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 5	Will Sayid ever stop torturing? I think the Sayid situation is a lose - lose If he ever stopped 'torturing' he'd lose his 'umph' [i.e. no storyline] Watching him torture people and have that 'inner battle' with himself is great TV [though that's rather controversial lol] but you know what I mean... If he keeps torturing people, he'll probably become hated [and rightly so] by the masses [a la Ana].... For me I hope he stays as controversial as he is as he's great to watch when he's like that ...And of course it gives us great moral and ethical discussions!! Like J Locke I love to watch him but I'd hate to meet him in a dark ally __________________ Recent Reviews: ~ The Dark Knight 5/5 *NEW* ~ Gone Baby Gone 5/5 ~ Indiana Jones and The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull 2.5/5 ~ Iron Man 4/5 ~ more Get REWARDED for posting movie REVIEWS and ARTICLES

10-26-2006, 08:56 PM	#12 (permalink)
~~St. Anger~~ I Am Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,256	Will Sayid ever stop torturing? Sayid would never have tortured Locke as the man had told everyone it was an accident and Locke didn't do anything sinister. As for Kate, back off you Kate Haters!