Is Eko the NEW Locke?

[D-Roc]

I found Episode 2.21 facinating..truely amazing.

It was refreshing to see Mr EKo suddenly come to life again and go on a journey of discovery and awe. In fact it was so familiar..it reminded me of when a fresh faced, open eyed and open minded Locke took Boone along on his jungle missions to catch boars, open hatches and study philosophy etc ..except this time Eko was Locke and Locke was Boone .. Locke the cynic, who would've thought, huh!

Anyway, im wondering is Eko our new Locke. Many of us have noticed the parallels between these two characters, especially earlier in S2..but now, not only did Eko have the purpose chasing enthusiasm of an 'old skool' Locke but he was even in Locke's dream..as well..Locke [or himself as Locke]. Now im sure this has so much underlying meaning that I wont get into here, but what do you think..is Eko our new Locke?

[Kiowa Warrior]

I would say that no, Eko is not going to become the new Locke. Yes the two share a lot of characteristics, but Locke is one of a kind and I doubt (OK hope) that the producers don't twist one character into behaving like another one - where's the interest in that!

However saying that I think that Eko could be turning into Locke in a sense, but not a positive sense: for a long time Locke had been driven to get into the hatch because he was utterly convinced of the importance of it, and then for most of S2 he chained himself to the hatch and the button, blindly devoting himself to something that be thought was important. Now it seems that Eko is the one who is offering himself up to the button and the hatch, and turning his back on practically everything and everyone else.

If anything I think that Locke is progressing, while Eko is regressing, as characters: Locke experienced his initial sense of wonderment, excitment and purpose with regards to the hatch a while ago, and then discovered what the realities of the button involved. And who can blame Locke for being cynical and depressed after discovering that his glorious destiny didn't contain hope and answers, but instead was just a years old experiment. I'm not surprised he's lost a lot of faith in it - and so arguably lost a lot of his defining characteristics - because he's just suffered one heck of a blow. For the early part of S2 he barely left the hatch, and then he got his leg crushed under the blast door, so he wasn't willing or able to go wandering off in the jungle.

I still think that Locke does have his old school Season 1 characteristics, but now they are not so striking as they once were. And this I think is understandable, because all the characters change and are influenced, and so their actions are effected. I think it would be worse if Locke was still shown as incredibly upbeat, full of faith, happily trekking through the jungle etc after all that's happened to him, because he's found out that the number pushing is useless; people have died in his hatch of hope; he's been conned; doesn't have anyone close to him etc etc.

I think he still has his core characteristics of wanting to discover places, the need to have faith in something and the benefits of an open mind, but his other traits that every human has - the bitter feelings of betrayal, hopelessness and worthlessness - are the dominant ones right now, which is why Locke may not appear to be the striking figure he once was.

[StoneRose]

Hey Rocco,

I'm not sure if he's becoming the new Locke but they certainly are getting very similar.

I think the two have different reasons for pushing the button though. IMO Eko pushes it because he thinks its important and for the good of the group, while Locke pushed it because he thought he was destined to, and the island wanted him to. Slightly sefish reasons maybe?

Also slightly off topic a bit but are having faith and being religious the same? As i think Eko is more religious while Locke is more into faith and destiny rather than being religious. Does that make sense?

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Kiowa Warrior,September 15, 2006 01:46 pm

Originally Posted by Kiowa

I would say that no, Eko is not going to become the new Locke. Yes the two share a lot of characteristics, but Locke is one of a kind and I doubt (OK hope) that the producers don't twist one character into behaving like another one - where's the interest in that!

Yeah, Locke is one of a kind and no-one can replace him. But there does seem to be a parallel in terms of the way they both [at one point or another] have put their faith in dream/visions and in the button and in stark contrast they have both at various intervals been very cynical. Although to be fair Eko has 'always' believed in the vaue of dreams and visions hasnt he [whilst on the island anyway]?

Originally Posted by Kiowa

However saying that I think that Eko could be turning into Locke in a sense, but not a positive sense: for a long time Locke had been driven to get into the hatch because he was utterly convinced of the importance of it, and then for most of S2 he chained himself to the hatch and the button, blindly devoting himself to something that be thought was important. Now it seems that Eko is the one who is offering himself up to the button and the hatch

It's funny how EKo has now seeminlgy taken up the role of Locke in this respect. It's almost just in time aswell, considering Locke's dwindling faith in the button and it's purpose.

Originally Posted by Kiowa

If anything I think that Locke is progressing, while Eko is regressing, as characters: Locke experienced his initial sense of wonderment, excitment and purpose with regards to the hatch a while ago, and then discovered what the realities of the button involved. And who can blame Locke for being cynical and depressed after discovering that his glorious destiny didn't contain hope and answers, but instead was just a years old experiment. I'm not surprised he's lost a lot of faith in it - and so arguably lost a lot of his defining characteristics - because he's just suffered one heck of a blow. For the early part of S2 he barely left the hatch, and then he got his leg crushed under the blast door, so he wasn't willing or able to go wandering off in the jungle.

Hmm, i disagree with you in the sense that i believe that Locke is regressing within himself. In terms of his spirit and the wonderful things that make Locke, Locke..i think he is regressing badly, whilst Eko is progressing since he now [believes he] has a purpose and seems to derive strength from that. Though i agree with you with regards to Locke progressing in terms of him now making a choice and being independant from any little strand of purpose that is thrown his way. In other words i believe that Locke has to go backwards in order to come forwards..ultimately this lack of faith in the button will do him good. I hope so anyway!

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by StoneRose,September 15, 2006 03:39 pm

Hey Rocco,

I'm not sure if he's becoming the new Locke but they certainly are getting very similar.

I think the two have different reasons for pushing the button though. IMO Eko pushes it because he thinks its important and for the good of the group, while Locke pushed it because he thought he was destined to, and the island wanted him to. Slightly sefish reasons maybe?

Also slightly off topic a bit but are having faith and being religious the same? As i think Eko is more religious while Locke is more into faith and destiny rather than being religious. Does that make sense?

Hey SR ,

Hmm, I agree they do have different reasons for pushing the button although i aslo think that ultimately their motivation for pushing the button is the same/similar. Locke, in my view, pushed the button because he believed that he was meant to..and so does Eko. In fact i believe that EKo said it best when he said "We should not push the button because we are told to..but because we believe that we are meant to" [or something like that, lol]. Both believe that they are meant to push the button [or Locke 'used' to believe that]..both of them believe that it is part of their destiny - "Tell me John, havent you ever followed a dream?" [loved that line btw ]

Ah yes, i totally get what you mean and i agree. Because whilst Locke has faith, he isnt necessarily religious..he's not necessarily Christain or Muslim or Hindu etc etc..in fact he put it best when he once said to Claire: "I believe in many things". He's a man of much faith..faith isnt necessarily connected to religion..faith is far more bvroad then that isnt it.

Eko on the otherhand..he has faith..though his faith is [if you like] channelled or derived through Christianity..his religion. The Cross that he wears around his neck is his reminder, his strength, his anchor, his pain..the symbol of his faith..his religion. So in a way his faith in more confined to to Christianity.

It's funny really..because both can be derived from the other [faith and religion]..and it's amazing how both have been depicted in our 2 characters. Locke [on the whole] is more open minded..whilst Eko isnt close minded but he's more cautious, more studious - a depicted with his bible reading and Dharma symbol gazing. Though it's also funny how both have kinda swapped around now..Eko is now the more open minded of the 2 and Locke is more cautious.

I guess it shows the parallel of faith and religion and also the distingtion..?

[Audio Pineapple]

[Please excuse me if I've named the episode references wrong – not quite myself this afternoon.]

I'm not sure if it is Eko turning into Locke because, in a way, Locke is now turning into the "don't mistake coincidence for faith" Eko and now they are both somewhere in the middle of the two extremes. But there are two different aspects of their personalities which, in my opinion, mean that they could never fully become one another.

Locke

Locke is driven primarily by his faith, by his hope, by his utter desire to be wanted and to have a purpose. He'll go into something with blind faith, refusing to stop until something makes him stop;


His desire to find his parents and his relationship with Anthony, only stopped when Anthony ran away / when Helen forced him to choose (DEM/orientation)

His rekindling of this relationship, only stopped when Anthony ran away (Lockdown)

His desire to hold onto Original Helen, only stopped when she ran away (Lockdown)

His desire to believe that his relationship with Phone Helen was real, only stopped when she hung up on him (Walkabout)

His belif that going on the walkabout would make everything right again, only stopped when he was refused permission to go (Walkabout)

His belif that he had to get into the hatch to find his purpose and therefore beliving in his dreams and visions and Boone's death would all be worth it, partly stopped when he first got down there, fully stopped now (MOSMOF/?)

His belif that his new destiny was to push the button, fully stopped when he saw the new video (?)

His belif that the Pearl was going to give him his new destiny, as seen with how his face light up for the first time in many episodes when he was going inside, stopped when he saw it was an 'experiment' (?)


All of these instances show Locke's dogged determination to believe that he has a higher calling, that everything he's suffered through will all be worth it when he finally finds his answers. This is in stark contrast to...


Eko

Eko thinks a lot more than Locke, regarded by some as cynasicsm. As a warlord in Nigeria he appeared to be ruthless and calculated. As a false priest (in ?) he still seemed to possess this traits, refusing to believe that the girl had been brought back to life and refusing to believe that she had seen a vision of Yemi. He also seemed to be considering some shady work in LA. He seemed sceptical in Orientation when Locke showed him the film, instantly asking about the splices (which could be viewed simply because he had one of them, or could be viewed as him not believing in it as much.)

He seemed to lose some of this cynacism when he found the drug plane and Yemi's body, and again when he cut off his beard in front of Henry, atoning for the murder of two Others.

In '?' he seemed to have blind faith in his visions, threw himself straight into them with no questioning, and although this is very similar to Locke, I don't believe that it is the same. He did not seem very interested in the Pearl hatch, which his visions led to, not to the same extent that Locke had been about the Swan.



And, after rambling on for far too long then, I think that that difference in character is what proves that Eko could not turn into Locke. Although, if enough bad things happen to make Locke lose even more faith, I could see him turning into Eko.

[Kiowa Warrior]

Originally Posted by KoRevo

Yeah, Locke is one of a kind and no-one can replace him. But there does seem to be a parallel in terms of the way they both [at one point or another] have put their faith in dream/visions and in the button and in stark contrast they have both at various intervals been very cynical. Although to be fair Eko has 'always' believed in the vaue of dreams and visions hasnt he [whilst on the island anyway]?

Oh yes there are definately parallels between them, which were demonstrated nicely in ?. I just personally belive that Eko (both pre and current island) is more cynica than Locke. I would say that hasn't Locke also always believed in the value of dreams and visions? Yes his faith in them is probably no longer as strong as Eko's is - the Boone incident no doubt still haunts him - but I think it's a fundamental part of Locke's character to follow his dreams, no matter where they lead or what they are.

Originally Posted by KoRevo

Hmm, i disagree with you in the sense that i believe that Locke is regressing within himself. In terms of his spirit and the wonderful things that make Locke, Locke..i think he is regressing badly, whilst Eko is progressing since he now [believes he] has a purpose and seems to derive strength from that. Though i agree with you with regards to Locke progressing in terms of him now making a  choice and being independant from any little strand of purpose that is thrown his way. In other words i believe that Locke has to go backwards in order to come forwards..ultimately this lack of faith in the button will do him good. I hope so anyway!

See I still think that Locke considers that he has a purpose - a destiny - on the island, but that it just doesn't involve the button anymore. Yes it's good that Eko now seems to have a fulfilling purpose with the button, but couldn't it be argued that he already has that with building the church? When Locke began pushing the button he only had an utter conviction that it was important to do so. Now that Eko wants to push the button he too has the same sense of conviction and purpose, but hard evidence is also in the picture, and he doesn't seem to be taking account of this.

I'm not condemming Eko totally, because if at the beginning Locke was also presented with evidence that the hatch was an experiment he still may have continued to push the button. But he didn't have. Eko (as shown in his flashback) could be sceptical about miracles (and quite possibly I'm assuming extraordianry things without firm proof), but now he's on the island he seems to have lost this healthy questioning of things. I'm probably not explaining this very well at all, but I think that because Locke is now realising that things aren't always as they seem and that just because he believes in a thing doesn't make it true, he has progressed a bit as a character, whereas Eko used to question but now submits to dreams/visions easily, which is why I think he's regressed a bit as a character. As we've seen with Locke, it's not healthy for a person to be stuck down that hatch pushing the button day in day out!
But I do agree with you saying that Locke's lack of faith in the button will do him some good

[Hooting Heck]

Small difference between two men on a mission, imo, but,

Eko's mission was given to him by an outside source - the apparition's in his dreams, and in Locke's dreams, which told him directly what to do. Far as I recall, Locke never got a direct message, unless the Smoke Monster made him do it, or you decide to interpret vague images in his dreams as specific directions.

Plus, when Mr.Eko sees the Virgin Mary statue, then his drugs plane, on the same island he's crashed - very strong suggestion of his fate being connected to the island. Again, Locke's sense of his destiny comes far more from within himself.

Going on what we've seen in the episodes anyway (including the flashbacks).

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by Hooting Heck,September 15, 2006 06:22 pm

Small difference between two men on a mission, imo, but,

Eko's mission was given to him by an outside source - the apparition's in his dreams, and in Locke's dreams, which told him directly what to do. Far as I recall, Locke never got a direct message, unless the Smoke Monster made him do it, or you decide to interpret vague images in his dreams as specific directions.

Plus, when Mr.Eko sees the Virgin Mary statue, then his drugs plane, on the same island he's crashed - very strong suggestion of his fate being connected to the island. Again, Locke's sense of his destiny comes far more from within himself.

Going on what we've seen in the episodes anyway (including the flashbacks).

His initial sense of purpose, the one that drove him to practice his survival techniques in Walkabout, was driven by his regaining the use of his legs, but I do think he had a similar purpose-triggering sense of experience to Eko al well, with the black smoke - I assume it showed him something similarly motivating (that has apparently worn off over the past few weeks).

[Hooting Heck]

Well yeah, but then, when a man in a wheelchair goes to Australia for a walkabout, packing a case full of hunting knives, then crashes on a Pacific island on the way back - you have to wonder if it was the Pacific island that inspired his mission - since he seemed to be well into it before he crashed there.

[Audio Pineapple]

I think that his need to find his purpose was founded far before the walkabout, back when he wanted to meet Anthony. The Walkabout was just his latest crusade, and then it was to find out why his paralysis was cured.

[Kiowa Warrior]

Just a small observation from watching the episode again last night about the similarites between Eko and Locke: when Locke goes down into the hatch way back at the begninning of the season, we see him take off his shoes and leave them in the hatch hallway. Then in Three Minutes Michael suddenly notices Eko standing over him, and he says he didn't hear Eko come in, and Eko replies that he had taken off his shoes and left them outside because they were dirty.

Not very important I know, but the similarities between them in terms of words, actions and beliefs do seem to be growing! (Although it could be argued that Eko is merely copying the words, actions and thoughts of an earlier Locke, when in fact Locke at present has moved on to new actions and thoughts).

[Hooting Heck]

While I can see the point about Eko becoming more like Locke (in the sense of having a mission to be on), I didn't see any change in Locke. Locke is just looking for some other mission to be fanatical about.

It's pretty obvious that I think Locke is a few sandwiches short of a picnic when it comes to rational thought. But I've had lots of experience (in real life) of people who were totally certain of themselves and what they were doing, and when they found out they were wrong, all they did was change direction. That is, become equally wrong, but wrong about the opposite of what they were wrong about before.

If you think that's bizarre, I actually think that something will happen if the numbers aren't entered! Like Locke did, but for logical reasons rather than having my head so far up my back passage that all I ever see is my own [CENSORED]!