A man of faith???????

[*SP*]

Got me to thinking about Eko's faith. He seemed like a man of faith and as we know had very strong links to scripture....but he didn't seem to have much respect for Gods' rules. Now, I like a bit of a maverick on occasion but I do like a basic grasp of what's morally acceptable in a man! He didn't believe he had sinned so that indicates to me that he didn't necessarily believe in God (or following the ways of God). Surely if he believed he would have felt the need to look for redemption?

[The_other_other]

i certainly think eko believed in god, and he believed god would judge him as a good man, but he definitely seemed to have followed his own set of rules when dealing with this. I think this can be traced back to his childhood, and his life in general where he has had to break rules to keep the things he loves safe

[Verix]

I was thinking the very same thing whilst watching LOS again last night. We never actually saw Eko being a holy man, even in the slightest bit in hs flashbacks. Only once he had killed two of the others did he seem to become priest-like. His knowledge of scripture could just because he worked as a priest as Father Tundy. I dunno, i just seems that Eko in actual fact never lead a rightous life. Only on the island did he begin to become a holy man.

Did we percieve him incorrectly?

[The_Number_Eight]

Did we ever find out why he went from London to Sydney?

[D-Roc]

This is perhaps my most certain ever answer to a lost question. Yes, Eko is most definetely a man of faith. In my view he has even more faith that the mighty Locke! As island events have illustrated with the button, EKo's rhetoric, his scripture and most of all, his actions.

As for not having respect for God's rules..which God..do you mean real God or this egotistical sentient island God?

As for Eko and his sins..i think many people have interpreted that wrong. Eko WAS sorry for the blooshed and all of that..he had already illustrated that with his 40 day silence, the beard chopping and his general behaviour. However, he wasnt sorry for the event that triggered this chain of events...he wasnt sorry for saving his brothers life, therefore how could he be sorry for all that followed. Thats not to say that in isololation he wasnt sorry for the deaths etc..but he was looking at it as a whole..he see's life as being interconnected with each choice impacting upon the next..therefore how could he nsay he was sorry when that would've meant regretting saving Yemi? Eko deserves such praise for this imo. Not only is he being totally honest, but he is also admitting to something that we all would do in his shoes - save a loved one. I for one would never be sorry for saving the life of a loved one..all that followed i may regret (if my actions deserved it)..but to be sorry for that initial event..Never!

[*SP*]

I mean the 'real' God ( although I use the term 'real' loosely being a non-believer!)
He said ' Thou shall not kill'. That's the rule I refer to, among others.

I have taken on board what you've said Roc, about him not being able to regret saving Yemi, but I can't see how he can say, 'I ask for no forgiveness, for I have not sinned'. Perhaps I'd be more inclined to agree with you about Eko if he'd said 'I do not ask for forgiveness, for I have only sinned for the good of my brother.' But not to consider murder a sin?? Wow! If I believed in God I think I'd have wanted to confess and repent before my judgement day came.

Being a non-believer though I don't have to worry about repenting for murder..

[E Pluribus Unum]

I agree to an extent KoR. I think he sees (or *correctly* saw) that one moment (killing the old man) as the 'end of his choices' - everything that happened after that was, in essence, Gods will (a la 'fate') - and for that, I think, Eko not only didn't believe that he had a choice in, but that it was also 'the path of destiny'...

After all, if you think about it, he wouldn't have been judged, on that island, had he not killed the old man.

I suppose Eko may have seen it as a 'catch 22'

- if Eko is to believe in God, then Eko must believe that God had a 'plan' for him (fate) so, like Eko said; "I have done the best I could with the path given to me (by God)" (or such words)
- But if there is no God, then Eko's comment about "not having sinned" is also plausible, as there would be no judge.

Basically, I think Eko was asking "who is God to judge when presumably God created all things - including his (Eko's) path"

If that makes sense lol

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by *SP*,December 15, 2006 04:15 pm

I mean the 'real' God ( although I use the term 'real' loosely being a non-believer!)
He said ' Thou shall not kill'.  That's the rule I refer to, among others.

I have taken on board what you've said Roc, about him not being able to regret saving Yemi, but I can't see how he can say, 'I ask for no forgiveness, for I have not sinned'.  Perhaps I'd be more inclined to agree with you about Eko if he'd said 'I do not ask for forgiveness, for I have only sinned for the good of my brother.'  But not to consider murder a sin??  Wow!  If I believed in God I think I'd have wanted to confess and repent before my judgement day came.

Being a non-believer though I don't have to worry about repenting for murder.. 

The Bible also says that we shouldnt sin..yet we are all sinners though arent we? I think what im trying to say is that life is not black and white..it's just not as simple as that and the Bible is more a guide than a law imo.. The only real place to find God is in the heart..not in a book which has no doubt been written by man (as has every religious book in the world). Therefore the only real place to find judgement is by God and his word via the heart..not via text (though of course one can derive strength and guidance form text).

Man cant even agree over which God is right, let alone what merits negative judgement..therefore who's to really say how we are judged? Im a Christian yet i have sinned..but i dont think that God will judge me on the basis of the negative events in my life..he will look at it in context (i believe)..and i believe this is what Eko was trying to say. That yes, he has done wrong in his life..he's already admitted that..but he asks for no forgiveness because to be forgiven would mean to take back saving Yemi's life. Eko doesnt believe he should be forgiven for this, let alone ask for forgiveness.. do you see what i mean? If forgiveness comes at such a 'cost of life' as to negate the sacrifice that he made then, why would he want to be forgiven for that?? Yes, to be forgiven for individual events certainly..but to be forgiven for a life which through bad, came so much good for another..why would anyone want to be forgiven for that? I know what youre saying..but i think Eko is seeing his life as one big sacrifice..yes he has done bad in his life and i honestly think he is sorry for this (and has already displayed that regret)..but if being sorry, means that he is sorry for the event that started it all, then he is not. And that, i believe, is the difference.

I back the man 100% on that because i would kneel down in front of God and do the same thing (though i would perhaps clarify what i mean a llittle better than he did ), since i would sacrifice my life in a heartbeat for say my wife, or my kid or another loved one (for example)..and i wouldnt want to be forgiven for that..i wouldnt want to take that back..since if thats the path that my life had to take then thats is the cost i would be happy to bear for those loved ones to live a good life and through them for others to also have a good life. That is indeed, "the cost of living", i believe..

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by E PLURIBUS UNUM,December 15, 2006 04:15 pm

Basically, I think Eko was asking "who is God to judge when presumably God created all things - including his (Eko's) path"

If that makes sense lol

Hmm, thats an interesting interpretation of it..and whose to say who is right, so im not negating what you said, just not sure if that is what Eko was implying..

Imo, I think that rather than sayiing "who is God to judge"..Eko is actually saying that 'only God can judge'..and that if his judgement is to be negative, then he is happy to accept that judgement because he feels that he did the best that he could with his life (as you mentioned). He is not mokcing God's judgement..he is merely saying let God judge him but let him not forgive me if to be forgiven means to regret wha he did for Yemi all those years ago..

Well, thats my opinion anyway. I dont think we disagree per se..just our interpretation of Eko's message is slightly different..

[E Pluribus Unum]

Yeah that's kind of what I meant.

It all depends on whether, at that exact moment - if Eko thought he was going to be punished. if he said "I have not sinned" and was prepared to be 'exectuted' in that way - then maybe he WAS lying to himself..

[D-Roc]

It's difficult to tell isnt it - on one viewing i did get the feeling that he was lying to himself (when he said that he wasnt sorry) in order to not hurt 'Yemi's' feelings..but ultimately i do believe that he was telling the truth and that when he asked for no forgiveness, he was seeing his life as one connected blanket whereby regreting the lives of those he took would also mean regretting saving the life of Yemi and consequently regretting all of the good that Yemi's life and work brought to others. Eitherway, i cannot argue with Eko's truth. What a great man

[E Pluribus Unum]

Well when 'smokey' said "You speak to me as if I am your brother" - that kind of shocked Eko, so perhaps he would have answered differently had he (as per my previous post) known that he was being judged so intensely