Mike's shopping list

[Mantis Zero]

ok so we now know the others sent Mike to take back Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer. But why these four? In the same way that Eko and co were due to be taken on the first night this leads me to believe they actually want these four away from the main group - they are the "threats" and are not in fact the people the others want.

Jack is a single minded lunatic, after Ethan and Zeke's run ins with him he made it clear he was in charge so its understandable that they would want him out of the way.

Kate we all know is immoral, screwed up, manipulative and always wants to get involved in everything. Best to have her out of the way.

Sawyer is calculating and very clever. He's a troublemaker.

Hurley? I actually think he is the odd man out here but due to his size a quick snatching would be very difficult so it would be easier to lead him to them rather than drag him back.

So why didnt they take these threats when they were in the jungle? On the raft? I think its because Ethan never got the chance to finish his mission so the others have used Walt to find out who to take, who are the threats etc.

But then does this mean once Mike has lead them back the real list will be made and those names also taken? With Sayid going out of the way to ensnare Mike and Eko living in the hatch who's going to be left to protect the group?

[StoneRose]

Yeah I think thats a really good theory and I agree. I've always wondered why the others had 'chose' them but like you say, makes sense that they would take them out of the way so they can get to the real 'chosen ones'.

The thing that puzzles me is what do the others want with whoever it is they are planning to take?

What are they doing on that frickin island

[D-Roc]

This is a puzzling one.

Personally i dont see half of them being 'threats' though. I wouldnt class Kate as a 'threat' and i certainly wouldnt class Hugo as a threat. Rather i think it could have something to do with what Kate said about "damaged goods" in 'SoS'. She mentioned how Jack and her were "damaged goods" and im wondering whether the others need them for something that requires pawns or disposable subjects or something..?

Also, if they were removing the threats then surely they wouldve put Eko on the list - since, like you mentioned, he was one of the threats they tried to remove on the first night on the otherside of the island. Also, Sayid is a threat so why leave him? Heck, even Charlie is a bit of a loose cannon and could be considered a threat. And lets not forget that Mrs Klugh never told Mike to kill Ana..which means that the fact her name wasnt on the list means that they certainly cannot be removing the threats [if you get me?] - because Ana woudlve been a big threat to them..especially after Goodwin.

So ther emust be another reason. At the moment im sticking to what i said in my first paragraph above. Although another possibility is that these are the people who came up on Walt's tests? Perhaps it's something to do with that. [i 'think' you mentioned something like this in another threafd Mantis?]

[E Pluribus Unum]

[Theory number 157]

Could it be that 'the others' are wanting these [4] people out of the group because they don't like how they are running things?

Jack is [undoubtbly] the one who makes the decisions, the one people turn to. [With Ana gone] Kate is his numero two. Sawyer, is [although a hated figure] probably one of the most powerful people within the group. Hugo, is everyones friend - he could probably convince people his way is the right way....

So have 'they' [in wanting Jack] made it clear that 'they' for whatever reason want Locke to lead? Think about what Henry did, he basically pushed and proded Locke into a 'more action' type of figure...

I think, in essence the 'others' are trying to support [in not so many words] a new government within the losties...


A new spin!

[D-Roc]

Hmm, interesting idea UNUM. It's worth considering every possibility imo.

I see where youre coming from and perhaps you may have something there. Although Henry did say that he was 'coming for Locke'..which would suggest [to me] that they wanted Locke with them..in their group.. ..So whilst i do believe that Locke [and all the Losties to an extent] has been shaped and moulded/tested etc..im not sure that it's these others who are doing the testing/moulding. So basically i dont think they are manipulating things so that Locke can lead the camp. I think they have more pressing and insular matters at hand.

Though you never know.

It would be easier trying to figure this out if the 4 'chosen ones' had some kind of common denominator..yet there doesnt seem to be one. Unless..of course 'HIM' wants them..because i seem to remember that Mrs K was very concise when she stated who Mike had to bring - she said something like "only these 4, noone else..have you got that Michael"..now either this is for strategic reasons [eg to split the losties in two]..or maybe it's because 'HIM' told her that he wants those 4 only..and we know that 'HIM' is not a man to be disobeyed [if Henry's testimoney is anoything to go by]!

Hmm

[Sawyer_Rocks]

They obviously like Locke. I think it's because he believes in faith, and I think this is why they didn't come back for Ekko, and why they weren't too cheesed off with Rose, Bernard, Claire and Sayid. They mightve thought Charlie and Ekko lost faith, but tried to kill them in order to make them regain their faith, and the same in kidnapping Claire. Claire's not full-out Christian but hey she got baptized.
Anyway, the Other's are on faith's side, so the battle of Science and Faith which has been a main subject in this Season, will be won, by faith.

Or will it?

[Sawyer_Rocks]

Sorry I triple posted. I can't delete the post but I replaced it with this. Soz

*No worries, i'll delete one for you*

[Mantis Zero]

Originally Posted by KoRevo,September 15, 2006 05:45 pm

This is a puzzling one.

Personally i dont see half of them being 'threats' though. I wouldnt class Kate as a 'threat' and i certainly wouldnt class Hugo as a threat. Rather i think it could have something to do with what Kate said about "damaged goods" in 'SoS'. She mentioned how Jack and her were "damaged goods" and im wondering whether the others need them for something that requires pawns or disposable subjects or something..?

Also, if they were removing the threats then surely they wouldve put Eko on the list - since, like you mentioned, he was one of the threats they tried to remove on the first night on the otherside of the island. Also, Sayid is a threat so why leave him? Heck, even Charlie is a bit of a loose cannon and could be considered a threat. And lets not forget that Mrs Klugh never told Mike to kill Ana..which means that the fact her name wasnt on the list means that they certainly cannot be removing the threats [if you get me?] - because Ana woudlve been a big threat to them..especially after Goodwin.

So ther emust be another reason. At the moment im sticking to what i said in my first paragraph above. Although another possibility is that these are the people who came up on Walt's tests? Perhaps it's something to do with that. [i 'think' you mentioned something like this in another threafd Mantis?]

Yes but if we take into account the cerberus system and if the others are in fact studying the islander's behavior they may have made assumptions.

Sending Eko and Locke off on their fruitless dream quest only served to move Eko into the hatch indefinately - hes out of the way.

Leaving Sayid off the list would undoubtedly make him suspicious when he would be expected to volenteer to get his revenge and Mike said he couldnt come.

"They will be angry" - was this referring to Ana's death? Did they know somehow? Did they tell Henry to attack Ana somehow? (Cerberus?) It's weird how he had plenty of chances to attack her but he only did it once Michael has been found by Jack and Kate. Was Ana's death manipulated by the others? Was Shannon's? Boone's?

I also said Hurley isnt a threat, hes just massive and I sure wouldnt like to lug him around for two days.

Charlie's unarmed and has no access to guns. I think as Zeke told Mike when he spat in his eyes "thats fair" so its not unlikely that they would let Charlie off for killing Ethan since Ethan "killed" Charlie.

The tests though I'm very interested in. They must be something to do with our survivors, I'm starting to think appearing to Shannon was part of his tests. Who would be most susceptable to astral projection perhaps?

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Sawyer_Rocks,September 15, 2006 07:55 pm

They obviously like Locke. I think it's because he believes in faith, and I think this is why they didn't come back for Ekko, and why they weren't too cheesed off with Rose, Bernard, Claire and Sayid. They mightve thought Charlie and Ekko lost faith, but tried to kill them in order to make them regain their faith, and the same in kidnapping Claire. Claire's not full-out Christian but hey she got baptized.
Anyway, the Other's are on faith's side, so the battle of Science and Faith which has been a main subject in this Season, will be won, by faith.

Or will it?

I agree that they like Locke and it's quite possibly because he has such deep rooted faith. But im thinking that there must be more to it otherwise wouldnt they want Rose [for example] just as badly? What sets Locke apart i wonder? Maybe it's because his faith is stronger than anyone else's? But then should we bear in mind that the Others [if they are Dharma] are more science than faith..so why would they be so interested in a man of faith

I think it boils down to the possibility that they had a hand in creating Locke [or something like that]. I know it sounds stupid but i just get the feeling that theyve altered his genes or something. There must be a reason why they made his dad look almost the same age as him..

[Sawyer_Rocks]

I just don't understand the others! One minute they're like "That's fair! We're gonna leave you alone", next minute "HAHA we kidnapped you're son!". I don't think the OTHers are used to being bad guys myself. Maybe they're Dharma Dudes. Also, I think they're taking away the Jack because he's powercrazed, Kate because she's the only hot one on the island or because she murdered sombody, Sawyer because it is possible to say he redeemed himself or because he's clever or because they think he's a bum, and Hurley because he's bereaved or because he's too happy or because everyone likes him.

All my theories contradict each other, but I hope one is right. But my favourite is:
If they had to make a hostage situation, then the four best people to kidnap are these four, but maybe not sawyer because he's hated. It's very hard to work out!!!

I want some friggen answers.

[Sawyer_Rocks]

Originally Posted by KoRevo,September 15, 2006 07:08 pm

I agree that they like Locke and it's quite possibly because he has such deep rooted faith. But im thinking that there must be more to it otherwise wouldnt they want Rose [for example] just as badly? What sets Locke apart i wonder? Maybe it's because his faith is stronger than anyone else's? But then should we bear in mind that the Others [if they are Dharma] are more science than faith..so why would they be so interested in a man of faith

I think it boils down to the possibility that they had a hand in creating Locke [or something like that]. I know it sounds stupid but i just get the feeling that theyve altered his genes or something. There must be a reason why they made his dad look almost the same age as him..

Interesting you say that. But the difference between Locke and the rest of the Faith Crewage, (Charlie, Rose, Bernard, Sayid, Ekko) is that they all had some kind of connection to faith before the crash. Locke gained his faith after the crash, it was the crash that put faith in him. Plus he is very similar to the others, he hunts, he tracks, and he speaks in riddles. I believe he is like the others, but the others could be a crowd of scientists!

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by Sawyer_Rocks,September 15, 2006 08:12 pm

Interesting you say that. But the difference between Locke and the rest of the Faith Crewage, (Charlie, Rose, Bernard, Sayid, Ekko) is that they all had some kind of connection to faith before the crash. Locke gained his faith after the crash, it was the crash that put faith in him. Plus he is very similar to the others, he hunts, he tracks, and he speaks in riddles. I believe he is like the others, but the others could be a crowd of scientists!

I agree, kinda. I think he had a certain amount of faith in 'destiny' pre-island. But he is [no doubt] the only one who has put his faith in the island. Even Eko, who is being touted as the new 'Locke' doesnt [in my opinion] have faith in the island. But more that he has faith in faith, or more directly. Faith in his brother, and himself

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Sawyer_Rocks,September 15, 2006 08:12 pm

Interesting you say that. But the difference between Locke and the rest of the Faith Crewage, (Charlie, Rose, Bernard, Sayid, Ekko) is that they all had some kind of connection to faith before the crash. Locke gained his faith after the crash, it was the crash that put faith in him. Plus he is very similar to the others, he hunts, he tracks, and he speaks in riddles. I believe he is like the others, but the others could be a crowd of scientists!

Ahh, see i disagree. I recognise that Locke's faith was perhaps more 'confirmed' after the crash but if you think back to before the flight, when he was in the travel agents or when he was at work. He was so certain that he had destiny..he 'knew' that he had a purpose and he kept saying things like - "Im supposed to do this dammit", "Dont tell me what i cant do..this is my destiny.." etc etc. Now to me that tells me that in the immediate lead up to the island [perhaps a few months-1 year] Locke did have faith. Despite all the crap that had happened to him in his lfe - get conned by his own father, parents deserting him, losing Helen, getting bullied at work etc..despite all of this, John still had faith right before the crash. It's almost as if someone or something told him that he was destined for greatness. Perhaps he went to visit and Isaac or had a vision? But imo, he did have faith before the crash.

I agree with you that the Others [or at least Zeke's others, because i believe there are 2 or even 3 groups of others] are ex-Dharma 'scientists'.

[hundredand8]

One thing these four have in common is they all had real looking visions.

Jack: Christian
Hurley: Dave
Kate and Sawyer: Black Horse

In contrast to Eko, Locke, Charlie, who "only" had dreams.

And Rose and Bernard, and Jin and Sun who had neither.

What I'm getting at is maybe the Others have now worked out who their best subjects are, and want to study them directly, cut them open, put them under the thought extractor, whatever.

Sayid saw Walt, but the Others may not know that because it was Walt that was doing it, not them.

(I'm sure someone will now tell me I've forgotten something which will ruin this theory )