Is Evangeline Really That Bad An Actress?

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by JB_Sawyer

Not to say I'm pro-Evi but can you give me until tomorrow? Kinda busy at the moment.

Cool, i assumed it wouldn't be the list of positive Evi aspects that would take a day.

[JB Sawyer]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo

Cool, i assumed it wouldn't be the list of positive Evi aspects that would take a day.

Your sarcasm is noted and ignored

But no I shall get to this tomorrow...

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by JB_Sawyer

Your sarcasm is noted and ignored

But no I shall get to this tomorrow...

That's the spirit

[JB Sawyer]

OK managed to find some time...

Firstly, just gonna say I don't want any arguments from this. Criticism is an opinion and after all the criticism I've done of Karl (which is justified ) I'm not gonna be a hypocrite by condemning other people’s criticism. But onto Evangeline...

I do think it's very very harsh and yes even to the extent to say it's wrong, that people immediately say she can't act at all. She wouldn't be where she is today if she couldn't act [/b]at all.[/b] Damon, JJ and everyone else associated with Lost said that Evangeline was perfect for Kate; they went through all the trouble with her visa and work permits, because they thought she was perfect. If you watch the "Before They Were Lost" on the S1 DVD extras, you can see how highly they rate her. And surely Producers and Directors of a show as big as Lost, and particularly all the execs at ABC will know more about acting talent when they see it than us? That's not to say that all of us don't know what we're talking about; but they are in their jobs because they can spot talent and they put it into roles where it can shine. So if they say she's good, and not just a pretty face, then it must have credibility behind it no? I know the majority of it is based on opinion but if everyone at ABC and involved with the show wanted her so badly, and not once did they mention her look , then surely she can’t be the wooden, can’t-act-for-toffee actress that people seem to want to pin her as.

I also believe that she has a very impressive range, not just the two emotions that most people claim she has. If needs be I’ll find screen caps of every single emotion she has successfully portrayed, but I have the feeling that may take up too much space . But in my opinion she has a very wide range, more so than a lot of actors on Lost have shown, and has believably shown emotions ranging from genuine terror (Pilot), subtle fear (Pilot *stitching Jack*, Tale Of Two Cities, What Kate Did), elegance (Solitary, Tale Of Two Cities, I Do flashback), genuine happiness (Hearts And Minds), sadness (Whatever The Case May Be, Tabula Rasa, I Do), mystery (Pilot 2, Tabula Rasa). And in my opinion she has shown all these incredibly well, and most certainly not wooden. Also I defy anyone to watch her performance in Confidence Man and tell me that that’s wooden, if you tell me it is, I’m sorry but I’ll call you a liar.

Now on the debate that Kate is a well written character, I have to disagree. Basically she’s the girl who wants to do good but did a bad thing in the past and is now on the run. There isn’t much hidden depth behind that character as there is with Locke, Sawyer or Sayid for instance. And particularly since her story concerning blowing up Wayne concluded early in S2, she’s been left with very little in S3 and oncoming seasons. Hence why she’s also been stuck with Sawyer and Jack, which does very little for the character either. And so to be honest Evie has been given very little to work with since early S2. Yet what she has been given she’s done her best with and I believe she’s done extremely well.

Also I don't actually believe that she can be classed as a main character anymore. In S1 yes, but since she has become alot less of one of the main characters. To be honest the only main characters now are Jack and Locke (and possibly Ben). So to say she's a main character I don't think is applicable anymore.

Now what I consider to be the true showing of a good actor/actress is if they can portray a deep range of emotion and dictate a scene without being able to say anything and just having to look into their eyes to see the hurt etc. Michael Emerson, Terry O’Quinn, Lizzy Mitchell and Josh Holloway can all do this perfectly, and whilst Evie may not be as good as these actors are there are times when she truly manages to do this perfectly. One example I will use a screen cap of is from Whatever The Case May Be, and in my opinion her eyes and facial acting alone tell the story here:


On the delivery of lines front, it’s true that she does sometimes have a problem with the timing of her lines but as someone else in here has said (Wiz I think) there’s never really been a cringe-worthy scene due to her delivery. Also she unfortunately doesn’t have the widest vocal range which can hinder her a bit, but neither did MR. To be honest I think a lot of people are just exacerbating her line delivery in order to again, call her wooden; a claim which I still believe to be unfounded.

As far as never really standing out or stealing a scene, well a lot of actors on Lost do that. Naveen Andrews very rarely steals a scene, and neither did Dom, but you can’t deny they are both very good actors. Surely if anything this makes Evie a somewhat understated actress? Although I do remember she’s stolen two scenes with Foxy (a very accomplished actor) in WTCMB and I Do, and she also held her own with Michael Emerson in the breakfast scene in TOTC. Now that’s not an easy feat, but she did it imo.

But it all really comes down to who you personally like as an actor, and if you’re not fussed on Evangeline then that’s up to you; however that does not necessarily mean that you opinion is fact as there will be a lot of people who do like that actor. Therefore I think a lot of the stuff said about Evangeline is not needed, I don’t want to mention names but there is a lot of stuff that is just stupidity trying to get laughs. If you dislike an actress then give reasons behind it (as KoR has done to his credit) don’t just needlessly slander someone and then excuse it by saying she’s wooden and make a lot of jokes about that. Coz to be honest it ain’t really that funny. As far as this goes on debate an well established opinion is always welcome and on this front it may come down to agreeing to disagree

[*SP*]

Originally Posted by JB_Sawyer

OK managed to find some time...

Firstly, just gonna say I don't want any arguments from this. Criticism is an opinion and after all the criticism I've done of Karl (which is justified ) I'm not gonna be a hypocrite by condemning other people’s criticism. But onto Evangeline...

But we are allowed to retort, I presume?

Originally Posted by JB

I do think it's very very harsh and yes even to the extent to say it's wrong, that people immediately say she can't act at all. She wouldn't be where she is today if she couldn't act [/b]at all.[/b] Damon, JJ and everyone else associated with Lost said that Evangeline was perfect for Kate; they went through all the trouble with her visa and work permits, because they thought she was perfect. If you watch the "Before They Were Lost" on the S1 DVD extras, you can see how highly they rate her. And surely Producers and Directors of a show as big as Lost, and particularly all the execs at ABC will know more about acting talent when they see it than us? That's not to say that all of us don't know what we're talking about; but they are in their jobs because they can spot talent and they put it into roles where it can shine. So if they say she's good, and not just a pretty face, then it must have credibility behind it no? I know the majority of it is based on opinion but if everyone at ABC and involved with the show wanted her so badly, and not once did they mention her look , then surely she can’t be the wooden, can’t-act-for-toffee actress that people seem to want to pin her as.

Well I didn't immediately say she couldn't act for toffee. However, after waiting through three seasons to see her prove that she can...I'm yet to be convinced.
I'm quite sure that generally TV execs/producers have more knowledge of what makes a good actress than I have. But I think we all know that sometimes they get it wrong. So they bust a gut to get her on the cast list? Based on what exactly if not her 'look'? I mean she barely had a speaking part in anything prior to Lost let alone a beefy role for them to see her 'talent'. It certainly wouldn't be the first time a production team took a gamble with a relatively unknown star but sadly this time, imho, it didn't pay off.

I also believe that she has a very impressive range, not just the two emotions that most people claim she has. If needs be I’ll find screen caps of every single emotion she has successfully portrayed, but I have the feeling that may take up too much space . But in my opinion she has a very wide range, more so than a lot of actors on Lost have shown, and has believably shown emotions ranging from genuine terror (Pilot), subtle fear (Pilot *stitching Jack*, Tale Of Two Cities, What Kate Did), elegance (Solitary, Tale Of Two Cities, I Do flashback), genuine happiness (Hearts And Minds), sadness (Whatever The Case May Be, Tabula Rasa, I Do), mystery (Pilot 2, Tabula Rasa). And in my opinion she has shown all these incredibly well, and most certainly not wooden. Also I defy anyone to watch her performance in Confidence Man and tell me that that’s wooden, if you tell me it is, I’m sorry but I’ll call you a liar.

So call me a liar. I don't deny that EL acted these scenes, in what I suppose was a professional manner. Certainly better that I could do....that would be why I'm not an actress. As Him has said on occasion, most people don't have a huge number of different facial expressions for all of their emotions and thoughts, but for me this is almost irrelevant. So what do I object to most about people telling me she's a great actress with a great range and believable scenes? The fact that for me it's just not believable. Because despite trying to convey certain emotions through her character in the examples you give, it has never really rung true. When I watch EL go through these motions of acting....it's like watching EL deliver her script in character as Kate. Yet when I watch Terry O'Quinn or Michael Emerson, I'm watching Locke or Ben. I'm wholly immersed in the plot, the emotion and the character. I don't see an actor portraying a character....they become the character. Something I think EL is not capable of doing.

Now on the debate that Kate is a well written character, I have to disagree. Basically she’s the girl who wants to do good but did a bad thing in the past and is now on the run. There isn’t much hidden depth behind that character as there is with Locke, Sawyer or Sayid for instance. And particularly since her story concerning blowing up Wayne concluded early in S2, she’s been left with very little in S3 and oncoming seasons. Hence why she’s also been stuck with Sawyer and Jack, which does very little for the character either. And so to be honest Evie has been given very little to work with since early S2. Yet what she has been given she’s done her best with and I believe she’s done extremely well.

Well I guess we agree on something. *faints* (Well, apart from the last line!)
I think her character arc has been poorly developed. But I still think a better actress would have done more with the script she was given.

Also I don't actually believe that she can be classed as a main character anymore. In S1 yes, but since she has become alot less of one of the main characters. To be honest the only main characters now are Jack and Locke (and possibly Ben). So to say she's a main character I don't think is applicable anymore.

However, she is considered the female lead in the show. She may not be as significant a character as Ben and Locke (or Jack ) but she still gets more flashbacks than any other female survivor. Again one may see this as a writing flaw. I for one don't see this as the problem. Although, and contrary to the opinion of some forumers, I'm not just saying this to be controversial...but the bravest thing the writers could've done in S3 would be to kill off their 'leading lady'. Too late now though given S3's ending.

Now what I consider to be the true showing of a good actor/actress is if they can portray a deep range of emotion and dictate a scene without being able to say anything and just having to look into their eyes to see the hurt etc. Michael Emerson, Terry O’Quinn, Lizzy Mitchell and Josh Holloway can all do this perfectly, and whilst Evie may not be as good as these actors are there are times when she truly manages to do this perfectly. One example I will use a screen cap of is from Whatever The Case May Be, and in my opinion her eyes and facial acting alone tell the story here:

Just a slight difference of opinion here. I can't argue that your opinion is 'wrong', it's yours, and you're entitled to be wrong if you choose. The other actors you mention do this perfectly. To me this is just a classic example of the expression I descibed in an earlier post.

On the delivery of lines front, it’s true that she does sometimes have a problem with the timing of her lines but as someone else in here has said (Wiz I think) there’s never really been a cringe-worthy scene due to her delivery. Also she unfortunately doesn’t have the widest vocal range which can hinder her a bit, but neither did MR. To be honest I think a lot of people are just exacerbating her line delivery in order to again, call her wooden; a claim which I still believe to be unfounded.

Again, I beg to differ. There have been countless times over 3 seasons where I've watched between my fingers and cringed and cringed and cringed. I don't attempt to get you around to my way of thinking here, just as you will never convert me to yours.

As far as never really standing out or stealing a scene, well a lot of actors on Lost do that. Naveen Andrews very rarely steals a scene, and neither did Dom, but you can’t deny they are both very good actors. Surely if anything this makes Evie a somewhat understated actress? Although I do remember she’s stolen two scenes with Foxy (a very accomplished actor) in WTCMB and I Do, and she also held her own with Michael Emerson in the breakfast scene in TOTC. Now that’s not an easy feat, but she did it imo.

You see, to me understated would convey that people are not shouting about her great acting ability. But yet they rave about her in those DVD extras....going by that I'd rather say she was quite over-rated.
As for never stealing a scene, yes, you're right, she's never done that. As for Dom and Naveen, I think they've held their own pretty well. Episodes like The Moth and F+W had a few scenes that Dom ran away with tbh...And Naveen, now he's what I'd call understated.
In that breakfast scene EL looked terrified. I'm sure her fans feel she delivered this scene perfectly and yet to me, I just thought she looked in sheer awe of Michael Emerson throughout.....entirely understandable though.

But it all really comes down to who you personally like as an actor, and if you’re not fussed on Evangeline then that’s up to you; however that does not necessarily mean that you opinion is fact as there will be a lot of people who do like that actor. Therefore I think a lot of the stuff said about Evangeline is not needed, I don’t want to mention names but there is a lot of stuff that is just stupidity trying to get laughs. If you dislike an actress then give reasons behind it (as KoR has done to his credit) don’t just needlessly slander someone and then excuse it by saying she’s wooden and make a lot of jokes about that. Coz to be honest it ain’t really that funny. As far as this goes on debate an well established opinion is always welcome and on this front it may come down to agreeing to disagree

To be honest I'm not entirely sure who you refer to. But seeing as I've posted in the thread, I'll acknowledge that point. I think I just have given a few reasons why I don't like the character or the actress. I certainly don't attempt to 'get laughs'. When I discuss Lost it's always my whole-hearted opinion that I give and don't aim to appeal to the masses. I really don't pretend to care whether you think I'm funny or not tbh.

[Murgatroyd]

In that breakfast scene EL looked terrified.

I've got to ask, what was Kate supposed to be experiencing at that point other than terror?

[*SP*]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd

In that breakfast scene EL looked terrified.

I've got to ask, what was Kate supposed to be experiencing at that point other than terror?

I realise that was the appropriate emotion to be conveyed. Perhaps I didn't make my point clearly. I think it was more a fluke than anything. It was EL's genuine awe of Michael Emerson and his stature as an actor that helped her deliver an air of terror, as opposed to good acting skills.

And another thing I meant to say, and Murg, I'm not directing this bit at you.

I think it's important to be aware that some people are less articulate than others. To say that some posts are filled with 'stupidity' is a bit unfair. If someone wants to label EL (or any other actor) as wooden but they don't have the inclination or vocabulary to back it up with long winded arguements it doesn't detract from their opinion. I sometimes struggle to find the words that come so easily (it seems) to Roco, EPU and Murg but I don't see why that should prevent me from offering an opinion.

[JB Sawyer]

I'll reply to your post tomorrow SP as it is at this time that I usually start struggling to see

But I'd like to make it clear that I was not in any way referring to you in that last paragraph

[The_abbott]

I have not had the chance to read all the posts yet but I did notice my name getting a mention.

I do know the difference between a character and an actress and I am highly crirical of many hollywood actresses these days not just Ms Lilly (IMO the standard of actresses these days is poor and most only getting the jobs based upon their looks).

To me, Lilly does not play "a character". I have never seen any real emotions except when shes crying or stretching to the point of over acting. There is no substance to Kate at all. We get a feeling who Jack is from the way hes played by Foxy. Some people are critical of Josh Holloway's Sawyer. I do think Josh is type cast but I he plays this type of role very well IMO and we know what makes Sawyer tick.

You could blame sloppy writing for Kate but the material is what you make of it. Kate comes across as flat and vile from her flashbacks.

Kate is just not strong enough to be a lead character. The only credentials she has that makes her a lead is that shes kissed both leading men (thats Jack and Sawyer Roco not Locke!). She has the role based upon her looks. In fact Kates role was BIGGER when Jack was meant to die in the pilot. It just shows that they were worried having Ms Lilly the lead star as well as the lead female. They knew she was not a hugh draw as Matt Fox (in the US he is well known for Party of Five).

Some of the stares she gives are often far too long and make her look gormless at times.

Lilly will get work offers, because of Lost and not because shes a good actress. I have seen range from many actresses in Lost, even Emillie De Ravin has more scope then Ms Lilly. Maggie Grace has even moved on with the scream queen/female b1tch roles and starting to do roles with substance now. Shannon was starting to become a more rounded character in season 2 and largely thanks to her input into the show with Naveen Andrews. What ideas has Eva brought to her character except play the laeding men off each other (how original).

Kate sucks

Evanageline Lilly is an actress but not a great one and never will be.

[The_abbott]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd

In that breakfast scene EL looked terrified.

I've got to ask, what was Kate supposed to be experiencing at that point other than terror?

It made Ben more chilling when there was no need to. Are we meant to beleive Kate was raped? I hardly think so as the others don't do bad things

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by The_abbott

I hardly think so as the others don't do bad things

I suspect you of being Rocco cunningly disguised as The Abbot....