Is Locke really "Mad"?

[D-Roc]

I was thinking back to the evolving relationship between Rose and Locke, and I recalled her vicious attack on his character back in 4.01 The Beginning of the End. In this episode she labelled him "crazy" (or a madman?), and it got me thinking - Is Locke 'really' "crazy"?

I think there's a fine line between crazy and sane and genius. It could be argued, i think, that Locke is all three.

He's "crazy" because he see's sprit-entities and goes looking for them, taking their word as canon.

Yet he's deemed by many to be a 'genius' for those same reasons - it makes him 'enlightened' and 'special' and 'connected'.

His sanity could be argued to be his ability to evolve, to question his own actions, and to even doubt his own faith (see season 2 and not pushing the button etc) - a mark of self-awareness..of sanity.

So, just what IS Locke - is he mad? is he special? is he a ramdon joe - "meat and potatoes"?

Or is he..as the song goes 'every woman(s dream)'?

[monster-eats-pilot]

I don't think he's crazy, he just has strong [crazy ] beliefs. He comes across crazy but if you actually see through it you can realise he's just passionate about his beliefs and to doubt himself makes him sane and human.

[firebreathingfishies]

Like Locke said himself in season 1: "Crazy people don't know they're going crazy, they think they're getting saner." And I do so believe Locke thinks he's getting saner

[Him]

He'd be crazy if he didn't have a reasonable basis for believing in 'spirits and stuff'. But he has very good reasons for doing so... they're actually there.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by firebreathingfishies

Like Locke said himself in season 1: "Crazy people don't know they're going crazy, they think they're getting saner." And I do so believe Locke thinks he's getting saner

Good catch, i forgot about that line

DOES Locke think he's getting saner though? I'm not so sure, i think he think's he's losing his mind a bit..like with the Jacob hut disappearing thing, and Ben constantly getting inside his head.

I'm sure Locke feels that he's less mentally stable than when he first landed on craphole.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by monster-eats-pilot

I don't think he's crazy, he just has strong [crazy ] beliefs. He comes across crazy but if you actually see through it you can realise he's just passionate about his beliefs and to doubt himself makes him sane and human.

Yes, well said - I think you could be right in that he's not necessarily 'crazy' just passionate and bloody stubborn!

Indeed, the fact that he does constantly doubt himself shows that he's still in touch with his 'human' and flawed side. This shows that he is dinstinctly human..damaged, but not yet beyond repair.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Him

He'd be crazy if he didn't have a reasonable basis for believing in 'spirits and stuff'. But he has very good reasons for doing so... they're actually there.

Yes, that's a good point - we, the viewers, know that there is substance for his belief's. We know what he's seen and have experienced much of this with him, so we can vouch for his sanity iin that respect

I guess the fact that we've been prvy to so much of his story (the visions etc) allows us to understand his actions, and even see them as rational - whereas people like Jack and Rose haven't experienced such things, so they cannot vouch for him. Wel, technically Rose has experienced some of those things, but she's either in denial or just not tuned into Locke FM.

[monster-eats-pilot]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

Yes, well said - I think you could be right in that he's not necessarily 'crazy' just passionate and bloody stubborn!

Indeed, the fact that he does constantly doubt himself shows that he's still in touch with his 'human' and flawed side. This shows that he is dinstinctly human..damaged, but not yet beyond repair.

Alot like you [Joke ]

In the style of Jack and Kate: Damaged goods.

I guess he's been through so much he needs to believe and his beliefs will be stronger than other peoples because he's been through more and needed something to believe in then [for example walking again] and now it's happened he thinks nothing will happen to stop him believing and he thinks it wont happen until it does which knocks him off guard so he stops believing because the one thing he's put all his faith into has let him down. So I guess he is crazy in a way because when his belief/faith in something has a downside to it he'll just toss it aside and find something else to believe in

I chatted on there

[charlierocks]

Wasn't Emily Locke schizophrenic(sp)??? Perhaps there is genuinely something crazy in his genes??
I think a lot of him believing what seems odd must have been to do with his foster Mum, remember he said the story about his Sister, Jeannie?? being reincarnated as a dog?? Locke didn't seem too convincing to me when he said that the dog was just a dog. Anyway if his Foster Mum was really open minded then I would think that she passed a lot of those feelings down to him. Lets face it he seemed really settled in the drug camp, I can't remember their names, so I think he is quite a believer in signs and spirits.
But back to the question is Locke mad?? I think yes, as he is acting really irrational without thinking too much, then again I think I'd get slightly stressed there too so who blames him, it can't help that the doctor there isn't too sympathetic with him so he'd got to deal with it himself!!

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by monster-eats-pilot

Alot like you [Joke ]

Aww i'm passionate..not stubbon

In the style of Jack and Kate: Damaged goods.

True - flawed, but still useful, yet flawed..

I guess he's been through so much he needs to believe and his beliefs will be stronger than other peoples because he's been through more and needed something to believe in then [for example walking again] and now it's happened he thinks nothing will happen to stop him believing and he thinks it wont happen until it does which knocks him off guard so he stops believing because the one thing he's put all his faith into has let him down. So I guess he is crazy in a way because when his belief/faith in something has a downside to it he'll just toss it aside and find something else to believe in

Yes, often people need something to believe in, something to make everything make sense or worthwhile. It seems that Locke's faith wasn't all it was cracked up to be (at least during S2), as his commitment paled in comparison to Eko's, for example. So this can relate to your point about Locke also being scared to believe, because if he puts all of his eggs in one basket then he's sure to be let down (that's life, right?)..and that's something that Locke cannot afford..that's something that he'd rather choose to let go of, then have it fail him and his sense of purpose - just like the button.

Good points Meppy

Originally Posted by charlierocks

Wasn't Emily Locke schizophrenic(sp)??? Perhaps there is genuinely something crazy in his genes??
I think a lot of him believing what seems odd must have been to do with his foster Mum, remember he said the story about his Sister, Jeannie?? being reincarnated as a dog?? Locke didn't seem too convincing to me when he said that the dog was just a dog. Anyway if his Foster Mum was really open minded then I would think that she passed a lot of those feelings down to him. Lets face it he seemed really settled in the drug camp, I can't remember their names, so I think he is quite a believer in signs and spirits.
But back to the question is Locke mad?? I think yes, as he is acting really irrational without thinking too much, then again I think I'd get slightly stressed there too so who blames him, it can't help that the doctor there isn't too sympathetic with him so he'd got to deal with it himself!!

Good catch re Emily suffering from mental illness - you could forgive Locke for believing that she was 'crazy' when he met her. He probably feels a bit pof stigma from that encounter - knowing that his mom is ill and wondering whether this will affect him one day?

Indeed, Locke seemed to believe that his step sister really did come back as a dog..he's so open to the possibilities and it's interesting to see him slightly shun the suggestion of reincarnation - perhaps he felt that Jack(?) would think he was..well..'crazy'

The role of mental illness on Lost is an interesting one, i feel. As you mentioned we have Emily, Locke, but also the likes of Hurley, Lenny, Rousseau and future Jack to name only a few. All of these characters do or have suffered some form of mental breakdown, and all of them either have abilities or are among the most open-minded of the characters (including Jack, who of course eventually becomes open to 'going back' etc).

We also have the 'fact' that Hugo's mental hospital friend saw ghost-Charlie before Hugo himself saw him. This 2nd-hand witness, who also happened to be 'crazy', suggests to me that the creators of Lost are trying to say that the mentall ill have the ability to 'see' things that 'normal' people can't or can on see infrequently.

Infact Hugo and Locke are two of the most interesting case studies on that island..and it will be interesting to monitor their progress

Oh, and I agree re: Jack..he's been VERY unsympathetic towards the plight of (poor) Locke and others on the island!

[monster-eats-pilot]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

Aww i'm passionate..not stubbon

It isnt a good thing

Originally Posted by D-Roc

True - flawed, but still useful, yet flawed..

You make them sound like objects not people

Originally Posted by D-Roc

Yes, often people need something to believe in, something to make everything make sense or worthwhile. It seems that Locke's faith wasn't all it was cracked up to be (at least during S2), as his commitment paled in comparison to Eko's, for example. So this can relate to your point about Locke also being scared to believe, because if he puts all of his eggs in one basket then he's sure to be let down (that's life, right?)..and that's something that Locke cannot afford..that's something that he'd rather choose to let go of, then have it fail him and his sense of purpose - just like the button.

In terms of 'putting all his eggs in one basket' he does and when one egg breaks he has a hissy fit and then moves the rest of the eggs and puts them in another basket until again another egg breaks and he keeps going until he hasnt got any eggs left then he has to get more eggs from somewhere.
I guess he can't except failure because that's just who he is. Like you said he'd rather just toss his faith aside because it's let him down. But he needs to learn that that's what believing and having faith is about, you've still got to have the strength and faith to keep believing when it lets you down.
Back to the overall question is Locke mad, you can call anybody mad for following their beliefs because you don't see the need to believe in that/ there's no point but then somebody could look at you and say exactly the same thing. And indeed there is a fine line between
being a genius and being crazy but a big difference when you come to think about it.

Now that was an essay. If only I had to write about this in my English GCSE

Originally Posted by D-Roc

Good points Meppy

I'm not just a pretty face