Praise the Lord..Locke is CLEAN!!

[The_other_other]

This is going to be one of those things isnt it

Originally Posted by KoR-evo

Hmm, but didnt you say somewhere that you dont think Jin would lay a hand on her (i think it was you..could be wrong)?

I dont think Sun has any excuse not to tell Jin that the baby could be Jae Lee's - a man has the right to know, just like a women would if it was the other way around. I hear what you're saying about her possibly being scared, but then is this 'really' a good reason to not tell him..or is it merely an excuse? Because 'if' it really came down to it she would have plenty of protection on that island - and at any rate i dont see Jin beating her up..of course it's possible but as you said Jin has come along way in 90 days.


I dont believe that..ok that perhaps comes into it, but i think the overriding reason for her deceit is that she is a coward. She needs to tell him..theres nothing worse in a relationship than lies and deceit..it would be a shame to see a potentially beautiful relationship have time and lies catch up with it. Sun needs to do the right thing imo and tell her man whats what. Who knows, perhaps Jin will still love her and will come to love the baby (assuming they both live, whihc aint a given)..but she has to take that chance and she has to have faith that Jin's love for her is strong enough that he will forgive her. Im not saying that Sun is an out and out witch (tho she does come close), but she owes it to Jinbo to confess.. Afterall, with Kwon not being Jins real father and Jin not knowing, its kinda ironic really..perhaps Sun believes that if it worked for Kwon than it can work for Baby Jinbo..but then she should look at the effect of protecting a child from shame can do..how distant it can make them (i.e Jin towards Kwon, tho he loves him). She shouldnt let this baby come into the world under the pretence of it being Jins imo, it will only serve to make her over protect it from potential shame (or protect herself from shame?)..it's not worth it. Please tell him Sun..please

It's not a case of Ethics iin my view. When it comes to love and relationships, ethics shouldnt even come into it. Its a case of love and truth and respect for the one you love. Sun made a mistake (tho im not so sure she truely regrets it, but hey)..i can just about accept that..cos everyone makes mistakes..but to then conseal that mistake and do continue to do so with the pregnancy thing is just plain wrong. The way i see it if you truely love someone you tell them the truth..though it might take every ouce within you to do it, you must eventually do it - even at the risk of losing them, because thats what love is about..you take the leap of faith that the person you value more than anyone else will see it in them to forgive you. Forgiveness is not something which is automatic..it has to be earned and the only way Sun can earn Jins forgiveness is to tell him the truth..the whoel truth..

Just my opinion, but i really do think that Sun has to take that chance and tell Jin..she owes him that much..

No i dont think i did, i have said that Jin is improving, but he still has a long way to travel, his reaction would still be entirely unpredictable imo, but like i said i dont think thats why she wont tell him...

But why are you so desperate for Jin to know? Do you think it would make him happy? Sun knows it was a mistake, the regret she has for it is glaringly obvious, like she said she is madly in love with jinman and we all know it. There is no need whatsoever for her to bring this out into the open, it would be cruel to her, dangerous, and most of all cruel to Jin. The man is much better off ignorant.

A coward? Are we talking about the same woman here? This is the woman who stood up for herself and rebelled against her culture which actually teaches that she is 'a coward' (and im one of those who doesnt jump down the throats of other cultures anyway), she is one of the bravest characters on lost. Surely the very fact that she was happy when she found out she was going to die told you all you needed to know? She cares nothing for herself, only for Jin, just as Jin cares only for her. In many ways they are the two most selfless people on the island. There are much worse things in a relationship than lies and deciet. Im not saying its ok, in fact like you it upsets me, but there are times when it works to everyones advantage. If everyone told the truth all the time korevo the world would be a very bitter place.
Btw you do realise that the baby IS Jin's dont you? The flashback was about her discovering that Jin had been shamed by his mother, and she herself was struggling with the idea that she would become this woman herself. She did not want to let Jin down the way his mother did, this was the messade of the eppisode and was why she was so happy upon discovering Jin was the father. Sun has not been perfect, but she does not need to confess all her sins to Jin for the relationship to continue and flourish, at least i wouldnt advise it.

Yeah sorry lockeman

[Easily confused]

I have to say I am a bit disappointed in Locke I mean if you are going to kill an Other you should at least do a proper job of it


Even though Mikhail coming back did make good telly I would still prefer to have as few Others as possible

Should we have seen it coming ? Didn’t Locke tell Ben that he killed Mikhail ? How did Ben react ? I can’t remember

[haelle03]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo

*places hand on Haelle's forehead* She means no harm dear Locke..please forgive her

Or do i? :devilish:

[D-Roc]

[quote=The_other_other]
This is going to be one of those things isnt it

Originally Posted by KoR-evo

Hmm, but didnt you say somewhere that you dont think Jin would lay a hand on her (i think it was you..could be wrong)?

I dont think Sun has any excuse not to tell Jin that the baby could be Jae Lee's - a man has the right to know, just like a women would if it was the other way around. I hear what you're saying about her possibly being scared, but then is this 'really' a good reason to not tell him..or is it merely an excuse? Because 'if' it really came down to it she would have plenty of protection on that island - and at any rate i dont see Jin beating her up..of course it's possible but as you said Jin has come along way in 90 days.


I dont believe that..ok that perhaps comes into it, but i think the overriding reason for her deceit is that she is a coward. She needs to tell him..theres nothing worse in a relationship than lies and deceit..it would be a shame to see a potentially beautiful relationship have time and lies catch up with it. Sun needs to do the right thing imo and tell her man whats what. Who knows, perhaps Jin will still love her and will come to love the baby (assuming they both live, whihc aint a given)..but she has to take that chance and she has to have faith that Jin's love for her is strong enough that he will forgive her. Im not saying that Sun is an out and out witch (tho she does come close), but she owes it to Jinbo to confess.. Afterall, with Kwon not being Jins real father and Jin not knowing, its kinda ironic really..perhaps Sun believes that if it worked for Kwon than it can work for Baby Jinbo..but then she should look at the effect of protecting a child from shame can do..how distant it can make them (i.e Jin towards Kwon, tho he loves him). She shouldnt let this baby come into the world under the pretence of it being Jins imo, it will only serve to make her over protect it from potential shame (or protect herself from shame?)..it's not worth it. Please tell him Sun..please

It's not a case of Ethics iin my view. When it comes to love and relationships, ethics shouldnt even come into it. Its a case of love and truth and respect for the one you love. Sun made a mistake (tho im not so sure she truely regrets it, but hey)..i can just about accept that..cos everyone makes mistakes..but to then conseal that mistake and do continue to do so with the pregnancy thing is just plain wrong. The way i see it if you truely love someone you tell them the truth..though it might take every ouce within you to do it, you must eventually do it - even at the risk of losing them, because thats what love is about..you take the leap of faith that the person you value more than anyone else will see it in them to forgive you. Forgiveness is not something which is automatic..it has to be earned and the only way Sun can earn Jins forgiveness is to tell him the truth..the whole truth..

Just my opinion, but i really do think that Sun has to take that chance and tell Jin..she owes him that much..

No i dont think i did, i have said that Jin is improving, but he still has a long way to travel, his reaction would still be entirely unpredictable imo, but like i said i dont think thats why she wont tell him...

But why are you so desperate for Jin to know? Do you think it would make him happy? Sun knows it was a mistake, the regret she has for it is glaringly obvious, like she said she is madly in love with jinman and we all know it. There is no need whatsoever for her to bring this out into the open, it would be cruel to her, dangerous, and most of all cruel to Jin. The man is much better off ignorant.

I want Jin to know because imo no relationship should be built on lies and deceit..i mean isnt it better to be honest wth the man rather than have him one day find out? This island (imo) in part represents 2nd chances and the opportunity to start over..now the only way that Sun can truely wipe the slate clean is by being honest - as Locke once said "nothing stays buried on this island for long", likewise the island will force the truth to come out eventually..everyone will have to face themselves at some point and the question is would Sun rather be the one to tell the man she loves the truth or would she rather break his heart by having him find out another way? And even if he was to never find out, it's still wrong..to withold something of that magnitude fromt he person that you love is wrong imo. Dont get me wrong, i know that this cant be easy for Sun..but love has never been easy and if you want it to be real then you (she) have to be honest. It may well risk her the affections of her man..but then that is a risk she will have to take. No-one told her to sleep with Jae Lee..she made that choice..and now she must do the right thing and choose to tell Jin the whole truth. He deserves that much doesnt he?

A coward? Are we talking about the same woman here? This is the woman who stood up for herself and rebelled against her culture which actually teaches that she is 'a coward' (and im one of those who doesnt jump down the throats of other cultures anyway), she is one of the bravest characters on lost. Surely the very fact that she was happy when she found out she was going to die told you all you needed to know? She cares nothing for herself, only for Jin, just as Jin cares only for her. In many ways they are the two most selfless people on the island.

Im not so sure that she rebelled against her culture..and if sleeping around is rebelling then i better wipe out my 'Rebel' tag coz it just wouldnt be cool anymore Dont get me wrong, i do see what you're saying..but personally i do think that she has been very cowardly in this instance. Most of us go through moments in our lives when we are cowardly, so im not flaming Sun here, im just saying it how it is Wouldnt real bravery come from telling Jin the truth? Is bravery not in part based on confronting ones fears and being honest with the people we love?

There are much worse things in a relationship than lies and deciet.

I seriously dont agree with that. I mean lies and deceit are two of the worst things that can exist in any relationship imo..i mean if a relationship is built on lies and deceit then what does that suggest? Dont get me wrong, i dont think that things are beyond repair in such situations, but one must be truthful..the truth shall set us free..and if it doesnt..then we must be patient..and have comfort in the fact that we did the right thing. This world is far from ideal, i know that, but even if telling the truth means heartache, surely it is better than keeping secrets and telling lies? Isnt that the test of a relationship..going through the hardtimes? Surely a facade of lies is not the answer. Perhaps this is why Locke (back on topic) gets hurt so often, because he is truthful and honest? But isnt this the risk we as people must take..the risk that the truth will hurt us?

Im not saying its ok, in fact like you it upsets me, but there are times when it works to everyones advantage. If everyone told the truth all the time korevo the world would be a very bitter place.

I understand youre not supporting itÂ*Â*But its not a case of telling the truth all of the time..im speaking about Sun telling the truth to Jin..the one she is "madly" in love with..the man she adores.. doesnt he deserve the truth? Does she not respect him enough to tell him the truth? Dont get me wrong..sometimes having the courage to tell the truth takes time..and thats ok..as long as she does eventually tell him (the sooner the better)..it's not easy to tell the truth, but she must do it..she must realise that the man whom she respects and loves deserves her honesty. It's the only way..if she doesnt it will eat her alive and it could very well destroy their future..things have a habbit of catching up with us - "it'll come back around...."

Btw you do realise that the baby IS Jin's dont you? The flashback was about her discovering that Jin had been shamed by his mother, and she herself was struggling with the idea that she would become this woman herself. She did not want to let Jin down the way his mother did, this was the messade of the eppisode and was why she was so happy upon discovering Jin was the father. Sun has not been perfect, but she does not need to confess all her sins to Jin for the relationship to continue and flourish, at least i wouldnt advise it.

Yeah the baby is Jins i know, but the thing is i dont think she was going to tell him in the firs tplace..when she thought it was JL's she wasnt going to tell him the truth. And at any rate she should still tell him that she slept with JL..a loved one deserves to know..how else can we learn unless we see how deeply our silly actions cut the ones we love. There is nothing more real and more life changing than to see how much even the sillyiest mistakes burn our loved ones..it's the deepest cut..and the one which reminds us to always protect the important people in our lives..

Hey, maybe im talking crap, but i feel strongly about Suns sleeping around..i just abhor that kinda thing. Im not saying she is beyond forgiveness - she isnt..but thats up to Jin to decide whether or not HE can forgive her..she owes it to him to have that choice

[Murgatroyd]

You know, I really wish I felt this was the case, but I genuinely don't. What was significant to me in the first place is that Locke was callous and reckless enough with another man's life to risk it in that way, and nothing's changed that. If you kill a person and then someone waves a magic wand and bring them back to life - or even if you try to kill them but don't succeed - your actions have had no net negative effect, but it shouldn't clear your conscience. There's no inherent repentence in it. I don't want Locke to have done what he did in the first place; Mikhail's coming magically back to life sadly doesn't redeem my favourite character.

[Mrs Ferg]

Micky turning up alive does absolve Locke from that particular incident but it has not been confirmed (or denied) about whether he did shoot that lad in his flashback).

I have always believed locke to be a good character but slightly immature in his actions. He is very much the impulse player and wants to get things done now rather than at some point after much thought.

I would actually argue that Locke was not commiting a crime when he pushed Micky through the barrier. Would a reasonable person in the circumstances consider that a man may be killed or harmed if pushed through an invisable source where you have been told it is "a sonic barrier"? I would argue no on the following grounds; its invisable; who has ever heard of a sonic barrier behaving in this way? I guess it could be argued that if that was the case he would have put himself in that position but I still believe a reasonable person would not consider that by pushing someone through would cause harm.

Consequently, I beleive Locke can be absolved of the perceived wrong doing of pushing Micky through the fence. However, the jury is still out on the lad in his flash back.

Thats my cent worth anyway

[The_abbott]

Sorry but Locke intended to kill Mikhail and thats the point. Hes a cold fish.

[Toby]

I reckon:

So, locke has gone off with the Others. The man from tallahase. And that dream Box.

He felt awful for his actions against Mikhal. He started to become what he hated so much.

So, he wished Mikhal out of the box. Ben gets his mate back! Maybe Ben described Mikhal to him, what he is about...

I am SO glad he has returned though. Such a great character, and shockingly good TV.