Is Locke a good man?

[The_other_other]

I know this topic has been done to death, but i was thinking about this earlier, and this just came to me. Now, we know that back in season 1 Locke was always trying to sort out people's problems, e.g: Charlie, Boone, etc.

Now, as Locke believes/d that everything happened for a reason, and that he was following his destiny, would this not mean that he only did this for himself? I.e: He thinks helping Charlie escape his addiction is his destiny, and so he did it, not for charlie's benefit, but so he could achieve his own goals. Now, I used to think that Locke did this simply out of his own human kindness (why not?) but then i rewatched s1.

Now, right after Locke helps michael by finding vincent, and putting their lives on the right track back in tabula rasa we got that creepy camera view of Locke's face. People may have their own views about what that face consisted of, but to me it was buisenesslike, as in ive done my job, or this has to be done.

The second time we got that creepy face angle, it was before he helped boone or charlie, i forget which. Now, why would the writers add in these camera angles? To raise false suspicioun? Maybe. But i think they are actually dropping a clue to Locke's actual character, in that everything he does he does because in the long run, it will benefit him.

Discuss

[Audio Pineapple]

In the past at least (via flashbacks) I believe that he did what he did to benefit other people - such as giving Anthony his kidney but I can see where you're coming from.

But, if he does something that helps someone (like bringing Boone out of his shell or taking the drugs away from Charlie,) even if he is doing it because he believes it will give him benefit, surely the fact that he has helped at all makes him a good man?

Plus I think back to season one when he helped Michael rescue Walt from the polar bear - would a man who was purely out for his own skin risk his life like that?

[The_other_other]

Originally Posted by Audio Pineapple,February 08, 2007 10:25 am

In the past at least (via flashbacks) I believe that he did what he did to benefit other people - such as giving Anthony his kidney but I can see where you're coming from.

But, if he does something that helps someone (like bringing Boone out of his shell or taking the drugs away from Charlie,) even if he is doing it because he believes it will give him benefit, surely the fact that he has helped at all makes him a good man?

Plus I think back to season one when he helped Michael rescue Walt from the polar bear - would a man who was purely out for his own skin risk his life like that?

Yes but i think Locke had a different mind set then.

Not necessarily. Its true the actions in themselves are good, but that does not make the motivations good. Locke's motivations imo are selfish

In a simple answer, maybe. Im not certain on Locke, maybe i am wrong, and maybe he did what he did out of feelings for michael and walt. Or maybe he felt Walt was vital in his destiny, and therefore was prepared to risk his life knowing that it was already planned that he would save walt. See what i mean?

[E Pluribus Unum]

I do see what you mean TOO, and it's an interesting perspective. Thing is with Locke, he's fickle. In my opinion, he's easily led and influenced. I liken Locke to a man running blind towards a bright light. He knows it's there, he knows what it is but he can't see what it is. Up til now, Locke has had 'things to do' in his life, but he's refused to believe that was his destiny. Why? Because he doesn't TRUELY believe in destiny, in my opinion he is using destiny as his path - his escape from himself, but I think deep down he knows what he wants, however until he accepts HIMSELF he will continue running blind toward the bright light that he knows is there, but he can not see

(man that was too deep and confusing)
Anywho, I agree. I think he does to the majority of deeds for himself. When faced with an obstacle, sure we could go around it but then we're not proving anything to anyone; when Locke takes things head on he's doing it to prove to himself that he's not worthless. Yeah, they're good deeds - and I think Locke is a good person, generally.

I think everyone is selfish, on some level. For example, I'd feel bad leaving Walt and Mike to die, if I were in Locke's situation (notice, I'd feel bad/guilty)

"No good deed is a selfless act" - in my opinion.

[Beach Crew]

(Loves this topic)

Personally, no, I do not think Locke is a good man. Maybe in some cases, but really, I think he does a lot of things for his own gain, or to make himself look good.

Take helping Michael and Walt, Mike didn't trust Locke and so by helping him it made Locke appear to be a good person, and so Mike allowed Walt to get closer to Locke, and for Locke to discover things about Walt's "talents".

And then Charlie, Locke helped Charlie, stopped him taking the drugs but at the same time this led to Locke becoming closer to Claire, and beating Charlie to the parental role. And then when Locke punched Charlie, that was way out of line, and just wrong. And it showed how the supposed great man has a temper also, and sometimes struggles to control it.

Boone, man, do not get me started on Locke and Boone. Yes, Locke helped Boone start out on his own, but he led boone on a wild goose chase, turned him away from his sister, caused Boone to act out of his original sweet character....attacking Mike. And then, finally, when Boone was starting to see through Locke's facade, the man pushed Boone to help him, talked more and more about the hatch and saving their fellow survivors, and this hero complex ultimately led to Boone's death.

Look at the way he competes with Jack, always trying to get one up on him, letting Sayid beat Henry and changing the combination, teaching Mike how to use a gun. He does these things so he can take the poor away from Jack, and when he doesn't get his own way he has a hissy fit.

So a good man, maybe in some respects, but I don't agree I'm afraid. Sorry.

[The_other_other]

weird thing is im not actually a lost cynic, but i couldnt help but bring this up. I dont think its as black and white as you say b, especially coming from a sawyer fan. In relation to 'good people' i believe that there are NO good people, or bad people on the island. Some have more good qualities than bad qualities, but none are completely good or bad in my view. (btw sawyer ranks pretty highly on the bad scale im afraid)

I do feel that locke has exploited people for his own gain, but perhaps he has had enough of being exploited? Perhaps he feels that what goes around comes around and that it is his turn to exploit people, or perhaps he believes that his destiny is ultimately the best for everyone and not just himself, so maybe he is not actually selfish at all? Anyway there are many possibilities here, nothing is black and white.

[Beach Crew]

Originally Posted by The_other_other,February 08, 2007 11:53 am

weird thing is im not actually a lost cynic, but i couldnt help but bring this up. I dont think its as black and white as you say b, especially coming from a sawyer fan. In relation to 'good people' i believe that there are NO good people, or bad people on the island. Some have more good qualities than bad qualities, but none are completely good or bad in my view. (btw sawyer ranks pretty highly on the bad scale im afraid)

I do feel that locke has exploited people for his own gain, but perhaps he has had enough of being exploited? Perhaps he feels that what goes around comes around and that it is his turn to exploit people, or perhaps he believes that his destiny is ultimately the best for everyone and not just himself, so maybe he is not actually selfish at all? Anyway there are many possibilities here, nothing is black and white.

Lol, it's a good topic. I know, but I just wanted to make my points clear. There are some things that Locke has done, but I felt for the purpose of my post I'd skim them. And whatever do you mean, coming from a Sawyer fan (I'd also like to point out I was NOT the first person to mention Sawyer) ? But Sawyer and Locke are a completly different kettle of fish (Never understood that saying till now, still wanna know where it's from). True, there are people on the island that are clearly more good than bad, and I agree Sawyer's no angel, but he's not a totally bad guy. But I can see where you're coming from when you comapre Sawyer to the great Locke .

Me too, and he does most of the time on the island. Yes, perhaps he is sick of being exploited but then what gives his the right to look down on people who do the same as him, like Charlie or Sawyer. Good idea, he has that whole everything happens for a reason, believer in fate thing going on, and so perhaps he thinks doing what he does is good for people as a whole, but that's a bit of a bizarre god complex he has going on. Yeah, agreed, Locke's a complex character and there's lots to discuss.

[E Pluribus Unum]

I suppose a similar, but possibly different question is "Do the others see Locke as a good man?"

I have a feeling that both questions will generate different responses, which is why I question the "others" motives (that among other things).

[*SP*]

I think Locke is a great man. He is good almost up to a fault. He looks for the good in everyone and every situation. I honestly don't think he has a bad bone in his body. Granted, he is easily led and his naivity or desire to follow his true path leaves him open to mistakes and Boone became a victim of Locke's circumstance...but I think he has learned from the experience and as we know felt incredibly guilty for Boone's death.

In terms of his actions being selfish...even the most altruistic deed can be beneficial to the person carrying it out. Striving to be the best person you can, especially when it involves helping or guiding someone who needs it (Charlie/Boone) is a great thing....but can bring a feeling of pride. I guess some people would say that is a selfish perspective...to feel better about yourself by helping someone...but only if that's the only contributing factor. I think most people gain personally from doing something good for others but that's not their primary objective. Enhancing his own feeling of worth is merely a by-product of Locke's actions, imo. I think he is motivated by a genuine desire to look out for other people.

DOL FOREVER!

[Him]

Before I give a more fleshed out response, I don't think it's fair to say anything good Locke does is just for his own gain.

You could say the same about anyone religious (of the regular Western kind) really - doing good deeds just to get entry into heaven. It just doesn't work for me.

[The_other_other]

ok ive just watched deus ex machina (only the second time ive watched it, great episode) and its pretty obvious Locke doesnt mean for boone to get hurt. I suppose that proves he's not a total calvinist

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by Him,February 08, 2007 08:53 pm

Before I give a more fleshed out response, I don't think it's fair to say anything good Locke does is just for his own gain.

You could say the same about anyone religious really - doing good deeds just to get entry into heaven. It just doesn't work for me.

I nearly went with that argument, actually HIM - i.e. Karma - but then I don't think Locke is religious or believes in Karma...

Though saying that he did/does seem to think there is some kind of "do something and get a reward" system on the island.

[The_other_other]

Originally Posted by Him,February 08, 2007 07:53 pm

Before I give a more fleshed out response, I don't think it's fair to say anything good Locke does is just for his own gain.

You could say the same about anyone religious (of the regular Western kind) really - doing good deeds just to get entry into heaven. It just doesn't work for me.

yeah you could, but i think its different for everyone no matter what you believe. I just suggested that maybe locke is of the kind who does things for his own benefit. Im now having second thoughts though :P

[Beach Crew]

Originally Posted by The_other_other,February 08, 2007 07:55 pm

ok ive just watched deus ex machina (only the second time ive watched it, great episode) and its pretty obvious Locke doesnt mean for boone to get hurt. I suppose that proves he's not a total calvinist

Yeah, he doesn't mean for him to get hurt, but he doesn't try to prevent it as such, and he doesn't exactly help matters. His rough handling of the boy and his lies to Jack, and then just leaving, it's simply not done. It didn't help Boone survive at all.

yeah you could, but i think its different for everyone no matter what you believe. I just suggested that maybe locke is of the kind who does things for his own benefit. Im now having second thoughts though

I agree, so don't have second thoughts. Although, I don't think everything Locke has done has been for his own gain, but I think that his mentality, (nearly typed everyman for himself) of everything happens for a reason just leads to him acting to help himself.