Locke and his Anger

[Audio Pineapple]

I've just been wondering about Locke's anger management. We know that he struggled with it pre-island after Anthony stole his kidney (and possibly before then although we so far have nothing to suggest this) but there have been at least three instances where this anger has manifested itself onto the island - and possibly four.

Boone and the Beechcraft

This is the one that I'm not sure about. Locke would surely be frustrated with the island for taking his ability to walk from him and then it gave him the vision that he asked for. It also showed him Boone, battered and bloodied. Locke could have easily seen this as symbolic because, after all, his mother isn't standing in the middle of the jungle pointing at planes so why should Boone be standing in the middle of the jungle with blood pouring down his face? But Locke was focused on one specific part of the vision, pushing the rest to the side and so did his (possible) anger at the island lead to him allowing Boone to go up into the plane and therefore meet his death?

Charlie and the Drugs

Back in season one; before the hatch gave him a purpose Locke took a shining to Charlie, helped him to kick his drug habit. In a way, Charlie was Locke's first purpose. And to see this go down the drain is similar to how he felt when he (wrongly) felt that the computer was just an experiment. He retaliated in Fire and Water although Charlie was damaging Aaron at the time we know that Locke had vocalised his anger earlier on in the day when he physically removed the drugs from Charlie's possession.

Sayid and His Torture of Ben

Locke immediately agrees to turn against Jack and allow Sayid to interrogate Ben (knowing full well that this meant torture) and only opening the door at the last possible moment. When Jack asks why he disobeyed him Locke's reply is 'And why you didn't ask me to help; well, that's your business' about Jack's army. He is obviously hurt by this and it is his first excuse for helping Sayid. If Jack had included Locke then would Locke have used his customary approach to problems where he thinks them through?

The Destruction of the Computer

This is the most prevelant show of anger that we've seen from Locke. He slammed the computer into the floor because he believed his entire life to be pointless and blamed the computer for it.

The final example quite possibly put the lives of everyone on the island at risk and all because Locke was upset and lost control of his emotions. Now, I do like the guy (although it's hard to tell from this thread!) but will he ever be able to change his ways? How long until someone or something makes Locke angry again and he hurts himself or someone else because of it? Or is his sporadic bursts of anger nothing to worry about?

[monster-eats-pilot]

Jack clearly makes him angry. I don't think Locke likes being shadowed by Jack's leadership don't get me wrong I would be angry if I was in Locke's situation but he does seem very tense around Jack and snappy. I know we havent seen much of the main island in s3 but maybe if we start seeing abit more of it Locke might of cooled down because Jack isn't there and I guess he's kind of the leader now.

[Audio Pineapple]

Originally Posted by monster-eats-pilot,January 04, 2007 11:59 pm

Jack clearly makes him angry. I don't think Locke likes being shadowed by Jack's leadership don't get me wrong I would be angry if I was in Locke's situation but he does seem very tense around Jack and snappy. I know we havent seen much of the main island in s3 but maybe if we start seeing abit more of it Locke might of cooled down because Jack isn't there and I guess he's kind of the leader now.

I agree with you here but only one of the situations where Locke eruptted involved Jack directly. Although he did smash the plates up when Henry said he was the man in the shadow of the genius.

[*SP*]

I don't think Locke has anger management issues. I mean, we all get angry about certain things but it's just contrasted more with Locke because he's normally so laid back. I think what we've seen is a sheer frustration with the situations Locke has had to encounter.

Boone - I realise Locke was partly responsible for Boone's death in round about way but he didn't know exactly what would happen. I think he was just following his faith in the Island and believed he was being led by forces outwith his control or knowledge. I mean, really, if you'd had that vision you wouldn't know what it really meant, or even know it was some sort of fore-sight. If you were a person of faith you'd just know it was leading you to your destiny.

Charlie - Locke's anger was entirely justified in this situation. Fundamentally Locke hit Charlie because he had put a defenseless baby in a lot of danger. If he was angry with Charlie earlier in the day it's because everything he invested in to Charlie was thrown back in his face. Charlie would try the patience of a saint and I don't think Locke acted irrationally at all. If anything here, Locke's anger saved others from danger rather than put them in it.

Sayid/Ben - I don't think Locke's siding with Sayid was merely a tool to get back at Jack. I mean, at this point Ana-Lucia had made it quite clear the threat the others had posed to the taillies and they all knew the others had Walt and had blown up the raft. I think Locke wasn't entirely comfortable with the proposed torture of Ben but trusted Sayid that this was the only method to find out the truth. His anger here was directed at the others and the potential threat that this one man could pose, thus his actions again were to portect the greater safety of his fellow survivors.

The Destruction of the Computer - The loss of faith in the button/hatch came about from seeing 'evidence' that it had all been in vain. Obviously Locke was angry about this...naturally. The decision to stop the button being pushed was calculated and long thought out, not an immediate knee jerk reaction. I think Locke truely believed that the button did nothing, and that no one's safety would be compromised. He thought he was liberating people, which in a way he did now they don't have to keep pressing the damn button!

Now, I'm not biased at all obviously ( ) but no, I don't think Locke puts people in danger due to his anger. I think everyone could be a whole lot safer with Locke leading them than they were with Jack.

[Audio Pineapple]

Originally Posted by *SP*,January 05, 2007 12:28 am

I don't think Locke has anger management issues. I mean, we all get angry about certain things but it's just contrasted more with Locke because he's normally so laid back. I think what we've seen is a sheer frustration with the situations Locke has had to encounter.

He clearly did in the past however and one of the fundemental themes of Lost is 'It'll come back around' and considering how all of Locke's other character flaws have come back to haunt him (the blind faith, trusting people and so on) is it just wishful thinking to believe that he has no problem at all, or will not develop one? Esspecially if Jack returns to the island and resumes the leadership role that Locke has happily claimed as his own?

Boone - I realise Locke was partly responsible for Boone's death in round about way but he didn't know exactly what would happen.  I think he was just following his faith in the Island and believed he was being led by forces outwith his control or knowledge.  I mean, really, if you'd had that vision you wouldn't know what it really meant, or even know it was some sort of fore-sight.  If you were a person of faith you'd just know it was leading you to your destiny.

I've been thinking about this quite a bit tonight (thoughts in another thread) and I'm not sure that it is an entirely roundabout way. Surely he must have thought that there was a chance that seeing Boone being bloodied and battered wasn't purely symbolic? Esspecially after he saw how real the beechcraft was? Although I'd put this down more to his blind faith rather than to his anger but I thought it could be included in the examples.

Charlie - Locke's anger was entirely justified in this situation.  Fundamentally Locke hit Charlie because he had put a defenseless baby in a lot of danger.  If he was angry with Charlie earlier in the day it's because everything he invested in to Charlie was thrown back in his face.  Charlie would try the patience of a saint and I don't think Locke acted irrationally at all.  If anything here, Locke's anger saved others from danger rather than put them in it.

I think it was justified as well, don't get me wrong, and he did have a right to be angry with Charlie but that is my point - he did get angry with Charlie and I'm not sure that Aaron was the sole reason for the beating.

Sayid/Ben - I don't think Locke's siding with Sayid was merely a tool to get back at Jack.  I mean, at this point Ana-Lucia had made it quite clear the threat the others had posed to the taillies and they all knew the others had Walt and had blown up the raft.  I think Locke wasn't entirely comfortable with the proposed torture of Ben but trusted Sayid that this was the only method to find out the truth.  His anger here was directed at the others and the potential threat that this one man could pose, thus his actions again were to portect the greater safety of his fellow survivors.

But it was a strange moment in time to bring up that Jack wasn't letting him join the army was it not? But considering Locke's usual "live and let live" approach, his faith in humanity and humans in general and his subsequent treatment of Ben it seemed out of character to me that he caved to Sayid's whim so easily. And again, you refer to 'his anger' and whether this was at Jack or at the Others I think that he flew off the handle somewhat.

The Destruction of the Computer - The loss of faith in the button/hatch came about from seeing 'evidence' that it had all been in vain.  Obviously Locke was angry about this...naturally.  The decision to stop the button being pushed was calculated and long thought out, not an immediate knee jerk reaction.  I think Locke truely believed that the button did nothing, and that no one's safety would be compromised.  He thought he was liberating people, which in a way he did now they don't have to keep pressing the damn button!

Stopping pushing the button was long and thought out, but breaking the computer? I'm not sure that this was in his long term plan - which seemed to be to simply not enter the code and see what happened and he only changed into a far more angry and violent temprement once Desmond began to question him.

Now, I'm not biased at all obviously ( ) but no, I don't think Locke puts people in danger due to his anger.  I think everyone could be a whole lot safer with Locke leading them than they were with Jack.

So far he hasn't really caused anyone any danger - unless there is fallout from the hatch being destroyed - and his destruction of the computer almost caused Eko to die from the polar bear. And I think that Jack will return to the camp and, if he did, Locke's new found glory would collapse and could lead him back into his anger. And even if Jack doesn't return - how long until Locke finds something that catches his intrest more than being leader does and he abandons the rest of the camp, leaving them with either no leader or (quite possibly) Sayid.

[Kiowa Warrior]

At the moment I don't think that Locke's displays of anger are anything to really worry about because, as SP has said, Locke is normally such a calm, thoughtful and laid back person, that when he does lose his temper it's quite shocking. Jack for instance lets rip (both physically and verbally) practically every episode, but that's not made a huge deal about because that's the way his character and personality is. Everyone loses their temper at times, and given Locke's history and current state of circumstances on the island I'd be more worried if he never displayed any show of anger or frustration. I also think that Locke's one-off, impulsive shows of physical anger (like smacking Charlie one) are a lot more justifiable than the planned, pre-meditated displays of torture and violence we've seen other characters concoct.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Yeah I think Locke is fine...

..For now. Of course, perhaps he is "too" calm, perhaps he's storing all that anger up and it will lead to a huge eruption; releasing it all in one go!

We know he's had anger problems in the past (as he said to Sun and as we've seen from his flashback) but we've still yet to see him lose his cool in a flashback. However, from what I can tell - his anger problems happened in between losing his kidney and meeting Helen - so unless he relapsed sometime after that I don't think we'll see the evidence of his anger, via a flashback anyway.

[Audio Pineapple]

Originally Posted by E PLURIBUS UNUM,January 05, 2007 03:03 pm

..For now. Of course, perhaps he is "too" calm, perhaps he's storing all that anger up and it will lead to a huge eruption; releasing it all in one go!

That's what I'm worried about - the rest of the characters filter out their anger continuously but he seems to hide it inside him. He does similar things with his sorrow and his frustration, putting on a happy face while the island threatens to bring back his paralysis and then having his break down moments such as crying on the hatch and punching the mirror in the car post-Anthony.

[The_other_other]

Originally Posted by Audio Pineapple,January 05, 2007 04:18 pm

That's what I'm worried about - the rest of the characters filter out their anger continuously but he seems to hide it inside him. He does similar things with his sorrow and his frustration, putting on a happy face while the island threatens to bring back his paralysis and then having his break down moments such as crying on the hatch and punching the mirror in the car post-Anthony.

also Locke is too trusting. I am a man of faith my self, but you need to mix faith with a degree of reason and skepticism otherwise you are going to get hurt. I am worried about locke, im worried that he will become like old cattle, ie: a young calf gets burnt on the electric fence too many times and stops trying to escape. Likewise if locke keeps getting burnt he may lose his faith forever

[Lissyloulou]

I don't see Locke as too angry either, at least not in comparison with anyone else. I think it may be that Locke is so self disciplined and careful it becomes a remarkable contrast when he loses that self control and therefore becomes more noticable.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Lissyloulou,January 05, 2007 08:37 pm

I don't see Locke as too angry either, at least not in comparison with anyone else. I think it may be that Locke is so self disciplined and careful it becomes a remarkable contrast when he loses that self control and therefore becomes more noticable.

Oh, i think he's an incredibly angry person. I think that this is a big part of his make up. Because for a man of faith, he doesnt half get frustrated and angry when things dont go his way or when he doesnt understand something - the Trebuchet, the button, 'Henry Gale', Charlie's drugs etc etc

I think that Locke has moments when he puts all of his past anger issues behind him and feels at peace (like when he helped Sun repair the garden in an early S2 eppy), but essentially uinderneath those layers of peace, Locke (imo) is a volcano of emotion.

COmpare him, say, to Eko..when has Eko ever got frustrated or angered by something he doesnt understand? Even when he lost his brother he still had an element of: 'this is the way it's laid out for me so i must continue along this path but look for the signs to guide me' mindset. Locke, however gets angry/frustrated and looses clarity when he reaches a brick wall or a moment of heartache. Now im not slamming Locke for this because it's most human to be like this, but i think it says something when at times Locke's faith can be so resolute, but then when he doesnt understand something, that faith crumbles so easily. I suppose this is due to his past - he wants to believe and he wants to trust, heck he does all those things, but essentially that faith and that trust is undermind by the scars or doubt and a lack of self worth..or rather a fear of self worth. Thats essentially what i think undermines Locke's otherwise strong faith.

During the SOS episode and that whole period of episodes i was confused as to how Locke could one minute have his faith so beautifully restored by Roses words, but then in the very next episode see that restoration in tatters - it just didnt make sense to me at the time. But then i thought about it and actually, thats perfectly normal..we all dip in and out of moments of faith..we all can have faith one minute but then be faithless the very next minute. I suppose that encapsulates Locke - he is a man of faith..however just how strong is that faith..just how much does it take to make him doubt everything that he thought was true? In my understanding it doesnt take much to break Locke..and this for me is worrying..

*wow, that was a ramble..well..sorry if you've sat through all that, lol *

[monster-eats-pilot]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,January 06, 2007 02:59 pm

Now im not slamming Locke for this because it's most human to be like this, but i think it says something when at times Locke's faith can be so resolute, but then when he doesnt understand something, that faith crumbles so easily. I suppose this is due to his past - he wants to believe and he wants to trust, heck he does all those things, but essentially that faith and that trust is undermind by the scars or doubt and a lack of self worth..or rather a fear of self worth. Thats essentially what i think undermines Locke's otherwise strong faith.

'Trust is a hard thing to win back'

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by monster-eats-pilot,January 06, 2007 03:37 pm