Adrift..For real this time?

[D-Roc]

Is Sawyer literally 'adrift'..not the season 2 episode with him and Michael on the raft, but rather, has the man from the deep south lost his edge?

I feel as though he hasn't been the same since he murdered Coops

[firebreathingfishies]

I agree he hasn't been the same, but it wouldn't be good writing (not that they've shown very good character writing on Locke's camp recently eg Locke & Claire ) if they just had Sawyer return to normal after he had finally killed the man he had spent his whole life looking for. That was really his whole point in life, his only aspiration if you will, and it didn't exactly go the way he planned it. Despite his big tough acting, all he probably really wanted was an apology, not saying that he wouldn't have killed him, but it probably would have helped. To be honest, I don't know why he's not acting more out of character over it. Instead he's trying to make house with Kate and playing horseshoe with Hurley. If that was me, I'd be sitting in a dark corner moping

[D-Roc]

Good point - a change in Sawyer was needed after extinguishing his demons, if you will.

I guess i'm concerned at the lack of focus some of our central characters are beign given - we're having less time to figure them out and delve into their mindset. BUt that's a consequence of the introduction of the freighties, i guess.

I suppose i'm also struggling to see a future storyline for him. Will be interesting to see where they go with his character over the course of the season.

Incidentally, I s'pose one interesting angle is the revelation that he wants to remain on the island..which was unthinkable a season ago

[charlierocks]

I get the impression that now Sawyer has killed the original Sawyer, he has become James Ford. I still haven't decided if that's good or bad, but definately interesting. You can't become Sawyer without a bit of wickedness inside!!!

[firebreathingfishies]

Yeah, it does seem that he's kind of lost his point in a way. I just hope they haven't had him kill Cooper so they could leave him open to be killed off himself

But you're probably right about it all just being due to the freighties arrival. It's not as if we can complain we've had 8 terrible episodes or anything!

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by charlierocks

I get the impression that now Sawyer has killed the original Sawyer, he has become James Ford. I still haven't decided if that's good or bad, but definately interesting. You can't become Sawyer without a bit of wickedness inside!!!

Interesting question! Will becoming 'James Ford' be for the better or for the worse?

He certainly seems more subdued than normal..and he feels that the island is the best place for him.. I wonder whether he can soon consider himself one of the good guys..seeing as it was so easy* for Michael to repay his debt to the island..

*I say 'easy', of course it wasn't easy for Mike to redeem himself (if indeed he has), but easy in terms of actually being given a 2nd chance when all chances seemed lost (losing Walt, etc)

Originally Posted by firebreathingfishies

Yeah, it does seem that he's kind of lost his point in a way. I just hope they haven't had him kill Cooper so they could leave him open to be killed off himself

Ooh, don't get my hopes up FBF:P

But you're probably right about it all just being due to the freighties arrival. It's not as if we can complain we've had 8 terrible episodes or anything!

True

[firebreathingfishies]

don't let beachy hear you say that.

[Beach Crew]

Originally Posted by firebreathingfishies

don't let beachy hear you say that.

Don't worry - Roco's quite used to my Sawyer Radar by now . Besides, I've resigned myself to the fact that one day I'll go from my happy collection of coloured clothes, to just plain black

Anyways....back to the thread

I do agree that there's something different about Sawyer in season four, and I don't know what it is, I can't put my finger on it. But it's very un-Sawyer like. Don't get me wrong, he's still the Sawyer we know and love but he's different. A part of me wants to put this down to writing - I mean he went from a snarling, angry Sawyer who was quite happy to beat up Ben to a cheerful, coffee drinking Sawyer in a matter of days (island time), which strikes me as rather odd.

But I agree it goes back to Cooper. When Sawyer killed that man he finished his "to do list". That was what he's wanted to do since he was a child and now he can live relatively easy knowing Coop can't hurt anyone else. But this event has changed Sawyer. I kinda expected him to be broody and emotional, and the angry, snarling version of Sawyer I love so much...but I'm seeing more of his softer side. The James Ford as some of you have mentioned.

I think this is his purpose now. To rediscover who he is or was. It could be a very interesting journey to see whether he'll stay as Sawyer, or do a 360 and become sweet James again, or maybe somewhere in between. Personally, I'd vote for somewhere in between, as, well, don't get me wrong, I love his sweet side...but well, his rough side is much more fun

Perhaps Sawyer is on a journey of discovery, and perhaps his character is with the writer's too and so they're trying to find the best way to get him to evolve. Just no more coffee ok guys?

But, as some of you (Roco/FBF ) have suggested, I don't know how much longer Sawyer has left. Something in my gut makes me think he's going to go now he's finished what he set out to, but lord do I hope he makes it to then end

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by firebreathingfishies

don't let beachy hear you say that.

Shhhhhhh

Originally Posted by Beach Crew

Don't worry - Roco's quite used to my Sawyer Radar by now . Besides, I've resigned myself to the fact that one day I'll go from my happy collection of coloured clothes, to just plain black

Anyways....back to the thread

I do agree that there's something different about Sawyer in season four, and I don't know what it is, I can't put my finger on it. But it's very un-Sawyer like. Don't get me wrong, he's still the Sawyer we know and love but he's different. A part of me wants to put this down to writing - I mean he went from a snarling, angry Sawyer who was quite happy to beat up Ben to a cheerful, coffee drinking Sawyer in a matter of days (island time), which strikes me as rather odd.

But I agree it goes back to Cooper. When Sawyer killed that man he finished his "to do list". That was what he's wanted to do since he was a child and now he can live relatively easy knowing Coop can't hurt anyone else. But this event has changed Sawyer. I kinda expected him to be broody and emotional, and the angry, snarling version of Sawyer I love so much...but I'm seeing more of his softer side. The James Ford as some of you have mentioned.

I think this is his purpose now. To rediscover who he is or was. It could be a very interesting journey to see whether he'll stay as Sawyer, or do a 360 and become sweet James again, or maybe somewhere in between. Personally, I'd vote for somewhere in between, as, well, don't get me wrong, I love his sweet side...but well, his rough side is much more fun

Perhaps Sawyer is on a journey of discovery, and perhaps his character is with the writer's too and so they're trying to find the best way to get him to evolve. Just no more coffee ok guys?

But, as some of you (Roco/FBF ) have suggested, I don't know how much longer Sawyer has left. Something in my gut makes me think he's going to go now he's finished what he set out to, but lord do I hope he makes it to then end

Wow, good synopsis Beach!

Agree that it must be difficult for the man to rediscover who he actually is after wearing another mans identity for so long.

What i'm worried about is seeing Sawyer go back to his old ways..i don't think it would be very good or very interesting to see him go round and round in circles. The same could be said of Locke, to an extent. We need to see these characters either evolve or remain stable, as we're getting to the end game now. I guess the ups and downs are indicative of the external and internal forces bearing down on these characters, but from a story-telling POV it begins to get repetitive. I agree, that it 'could' be interesting to see Sawyer's 'new journey' (if indeed he has one), but as he showed with the whol 'making house' thing with Kate, he seems too fallable to go back to his old ways. I would like to see a redemptive Sawyer, someone who comes out of the burning ashes of hell to become 'one of the good guys', yet keep that air of arrogance. That's the Sawyer I thought we were getting back in 'Adrift', but since then he's regressed and now he's lost everything that made him devisive (imo). At least he was a talking point..now he's just one of the group.

Still, i hear your points and they are worthy..like you i think he's nearing the end of his island life.

[Beach Crew]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

Wow, good synopsis Beach!

Thanks

Agree that it must be difficult for the man to rediscover who he actually is after wearing another mans identity for so long.

Exactly. I mean, there's a chance he doesn't know who he is anymore. That he's been Sawyer for so long that it's hard for him to go back to who he used to be. I mean, that was what...almost 20 years ago if he was 19 when he carried out his first con. That's a long time to not know who you are.

Perhaps he'll start again? Or that's what he's trying to do?

What i'm worried about is seeing Sawyer go back to his old ways..i don't think it would be very good or very interesting to see him go round and round in circles. The same could be said of Locke, to an extent. We need to see these characters either evolve or remain stable, as we're getting to the end game now. I guess the ups and downs are indicative of the external and internal forces bearing down on these characters, but from a story-telling POV it begins to get repetitive.

Agreed. I don't so much mind the back-peddling in Sawyer's case, but hear me out until I explain myself. I mean, when he's frightened or nervous or in a new situation - I don't mind the old Sawyer coming out, because it's his defense mechanism and we all revert back to what we know best when we seek to comfort ourselves. What I would like to see is some sense of forward movement. I didn't mind the lack of this in season one, nor did I mind that he lost the nice-guy Sawyer in season two as the Tailies arrived, or in the beginning of season three with the fear of being with the Others. I'd like to see him find a constant for better want of a word and then for the most part stick with it, and for the love of god, stay away from Kate!

I agree, that it 'could' be interesting to see Sawyer's 'new journey' (if indeed he has one), but as he showed with the whol 'making house' thing with Kate, he seems too fallable to go back to his old ways. I would like to see a redemptive Sawyer, someone who comes out of the burning ashes of hell to become 'one of the good guys', yet keep that air of arrogance. That's the Sawyer I thought we were getting back in 'Adrift', but since then he's regressed and now he's lost everything that made him devisive (imo). At least he was a talking point..now he's just one of the group.

I can't tell you how much I love that idea. I long for the day Sawyer finally snaps and takes over Jack's role, lol. I'm curious to see what'll happen if he is indeed left behind on the island? Could that possibly be his chance to shine? I always go back to season three - where hurley made him leader of the camp. Sawyer was a success and everyone liked him. I think he could do this again! But that has yet to be seen.

Still, i hear your points and they are worthy..like you i think he's nearing the end of his island life.

Same goes to you. Can we have a funeral? Lord, what am I saying? I'm not quite ready to accept that he might die just yet, but I am prepared, lol. My poor baby.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Beach Crew

Exactly. I mean, there's a chance he doesn't know who he is anymore. That he's been Sawyer for so long that it's hard for him to go back to who he used to be. I mean, that was what...almost 20 years ago if he was 19 when he carried out his first con. That's a long time to not know who you are.

Perhaps he'll start again? Or that's what he's trying to do?

Yes, I'd like to see more of this angst - Sawyer's always been a conflicted character and i'd like to see them bring this back to the forefront. We know he must be going through internal battles right now (not just with killing Coops, but with the whole staying on the island thing), so I hope they keep him interesting by not expecting us to 'assume' that struggle. I don't like the man but it'd be a shame to see an interesting character go the way of Claire and Kate.

True, the issue of identity has always been a focal point of Sawyer's character - I'm hoping it's not a case of the real James Ford now being uninteresting post-Cooper. I'm also hoping that he takes whatever opportunities of redemption await him, but that he crucially does't lose that edge. Take Eko for example - a man who needed and sought redemption..a good man (imo), yet he was always interesting. This is what they need to do wtih Sawyer, I feel. Of course they might not want to redeem the character - however my understanding of Lost is that redemption is best given to those who need it most.

Agreed. I don't so much mind the back-peddling in Sawyer's case, but hear me out until I explain myself. I mean, when he's frightened or nervous or in a new situation - I don't mind the old Sawyer coming out, because it's his defense mechanism and we all revert back to what we know best when we seek to comfort ourselves. What I would like to see is some sense of forward movement. I didn't mind the lack of this in season one, nor did I mind that he lost the nice-guy Sawyer in season two as the Tailies arrived, or in the beginning of season three with the fear of being with the Others. I'd like to see him find a constant for better want of a word and then for the most part stick with it, and for the love of god, stay away from Kate!

Well said! He needs to evolve as a character. It's got to the stage now where he's either too predicatable or not very interesting (in my eyes). But to have Sawyer redeem himself and find happiness, that would be interesting because he's always been one of the most unlikely characters to seek, let alone find redemption IMHO. Of course this is a show tinged with sadness..the very title says it all: 'LOST', so whilst I don't expect lollipops and candy floss to be the order of the day for any character, I do hope that laced within the confines of hoplessness, lies hope. I sense that by choosing to stay on the island, Sawyer is realising that there's 'hope' for him on the island.

I can't tell you how much I love that idea. I long for the day Sawyer finally snaps and takes over Jack's role, lol. I'm curious to see what'll happen if he is indeed left behind on the island? Could that possibly be his chance to shine? I always go back to season three - where hurley made him leader of the camp. Sawyer was a success and everyone liked him. I think he could do this again! But that has yet to be seen.

Interesting - a while ago it looked like Sawyer was going to be leader of this group (the episode where he stole the guns)..and then again in Season 3 when Hugo helped him to pay it forward for a change. However he's never been able to hold onto any form of responsibility. IMO He shuns it, it gets to much for him, because responsibility means caring and caring means leaving yourself open to attack, and that's something that Sawyer has learned to protect himself from. Understandable to an extent. But who knows what awaits him? We didn't think it likely that Kate would ever stop running - yet it seems that in a few years time she will have done just that, and have a baby to boot. We didn't think it likely that Sayid would be on Team Linus - yet 2005 sees him do just that. So whilst I don't think leadership is Ford's forte, the island has a way of allowing people to eventually find themselves. Let's hope he does so before it's too late.

Same goes to you. Can we have a funeral? Lord, what am I saying? I'm not quite ready to accept that he might die just yet, but I am prepared, lol. My poor baby.