He of Contradiction

[D-Roc]

Isa ""He walks amongst us, but he is not one of us. Your tattoos, thats what they say"

Jack "Thats what they say..it's not what they mean.."

So, Jack is a man of contradiction..his tattoos say one thing but according to him they actually mean something entirely different (to him at least).
Whilst i am interested in what they DO mean to him..im also interested in what this contradiction, this parodox, says about Jack..the real Jack?

Would it suggest that when he gives his brave speeches, he says one thing..but secretly he means something entirely different (like his tatts)?

Would it also suggest that this so-called reluctant leader is in fact a power hungry machine who knows his fate and has already set out how to achive it..or change it?

Im not saying i believe these things, but im merely throwing this 'out there' as they say, cos i think the irony and contradiction regarding his tattoos, tell us alot about Jack..the real Jack..

Feel free to contribute, or not..whatever the case may be

[The_abbott]

They mean "party of Five". We don't need Lost to tell us that

[Murgatroyd]

What I hope it means is that he's determined not to be constricted by what other people call his 'fate', rather like Desmond: I expect Achara meant that tattooing him would set his character, but he wanted her to do it precisely so he could prove his destiny wrong and undermine the whole concept. Which is good, because I don't much like the thought of people being branded and then their whole future being mapped out according to some label. So maybe he's saying that what the tattoo says really doesn't matter... what it means is the intent behind his insisting on it.

[-x-madegurl-x-]

Originally Posted by The_abbott,March 02, 2007 03:58 pm

They mean "party of Five". We don't need Lost to tell us that

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd,March 02, 2007 05:04 pm

What I hope it means is that he's determined not to be constricted by what other people call his 'fate', rather like Desmond: I expect Achara meant that tattooing him would set his character, but he wanted her to do it precisely so he could prove his destiny wrong and undermine the whole concept. Which is good, because I don't much like the thought of people being branded and then their whole future being mapped out according to some label. So maybe he's saying that what the tattoo says really doesn't matter... what it means is the intent behind his insisting on it.

Yes, good points.

It so fits in with Jacks character as well..proving that he can overcome any obstacle thats in front of him etc.

As you also suggest, I suppose at this stage of his life Jack was so far removed from believing in 'fate' that the suggestion that fate could control him or set his path perhaps provoked him into getting cutey to brand him .

I like this idea because it gives Jack that edge (not that he needed anymore edges in this season).

Interesting suggestion about what his tattoo actually means.. the purposeful ironic intent and not so much the actual words. Though i do think that the wording will play a part somehow.

it could be argued that Jack is no longer a 'Lostie'..as in parallel to that i would pose the idea that with her recent branding, Jules is no longer an 'Other'. Though she still walks amongst them..she is no longer one of them..

[Toby]

He did this paradox type thing with the waiting for sunrise all the way back in MOSMOF. Instead he went off to ye olde hatch (bless it).

But, I think its a great trait, doing what he feels like, what his senses demand, constantly changing opinion to fit situation and purpose. What do his tattos mean? Honesty, openess, I will always be myself even when I am in a different community.

Its tough, my brain hasnt grasped at all the juices yet, but Im getting there

Great thread Kor, as that is my now favourite lost quote:

"Thats what they say..it's not what they mean.."



EDIT EXTRA:

it could be argued that Jack is no longer a 'Lostie'..as in parallel to that i would pose the idea that with her recent branding, Jules is no longer an 'Other'. Though she still walks amongst them..she is no longer one of them..

o0o yes yes yes indeed! But I am thinking, was Jack a true Lostie, part of the gang? He was always needed, but who did he come truly good friends with? Kate, Saywer and Ana? Really? Hmmm, everyone needs him but no one wants him... his bed-side manner has something to be admired, eh?

And Me Julie, Branded like a single cattle in a field of mice. Ok bad analogy. Juliet is the first member of Jacks new group? Will he create an Other Others' group of his own? Argh brainstorm! need time to tink about things

Final EDIT:

I guess Jacks one true island buddy was Rose

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd,March 02, 2007 05:04 pm

What I hope it means is that he's determined not to be constricted by what other people call his 'fate', rather like Desmond: I expect Achara meant that tattooing him would set his character, but he wanted her to do it precisely so he could prove his destiny wrong and undermine the whole concept. Which is good, because I don't much like the thought of people being branded and then their whole future being mapped out according to some label. So maybe he's saying that what the tattoo says really doesn't matter... what it means is the intent behind his insisting on it.

Oh I actually love that. It certainly goes a distance in explaining Jack's 'reluctance' to lead, that Jack - a man of science - would actually conform to 'fates' pre-determined path.

And if it's true it's yet another character trait he shares with his polar opposite - Locke.

(Proving 'fate' wrong)

Like KoR, I think the wording is important. But I also assumed when Jack said "That's what they say, but it's not what they mean" - meant that the reason he got the tats are what they mean, not what they say. I came up in another thread that he got them to prove his father wrong - his father always putting him down, saying he'd never be "good enough" and the meaning behind the tattoos (i.e. that he would become a great man; a leader) kind of prove his father wrong. After all, that's why he was on his binge wasn't it?

Actually a little off topic but where about on the timeline is this flashback set? I presume directly after he told the powers that be that Christian had operated on the pregnant women while under the influence? (and effectively got his Father in trouble)