The Black Smoke

[Miss Austen]

Excuse me if this has been raised before on this forum.

Is the black smoke a symbol of death in Lost? I've just watched an episode of Lost and Locke describes seeing a white light in the black smoke to Eko. This is often what people who experience near-death report seeing. They see bright lights and angels and so forth and it's a positive and uplifting experience. Whereas other people don't have such a positive near-death experience.

This mirrors what Eko told Locke. He said when he looked into the black smoke he didn't see the same things as Locke.

I think when Locke dies it is going to be because he has done something good and heroic and that is perhaps why he sees beautiful things in the black smoke or perhaps he sees nice things because he is basically a good person. Eko had the potential to be a good person but he didn't regret killing anyone and just thought those deaths were things that had to happen in order that he or his brother, Yemi, could survive and that was why he was killed by the black smoke because he didn't repent or regret his actions.

[Miss Austen]

The island and The Others have definite ideas about whom they want and whom they want to protect and who can die in order that they achieve their object. Why else would Juliet's husband have been run over by a bus when she said that was the only event that would help her be in a position to take the job The Others were offering her?

Of course at that time Juliet thought the job offer was above above board until she realised she had been manipulated.

Maybe Locke was similarly manipulated? Much as I like Locke he has shown himself to be a gullible person and The Others even managed at one time to con the Con King himself - Sawyer! Remember the pacemaker in Sawyer's chest that didn't exist?

[Reed]

In regard to your first post, the Black Smoke could very well be some form of 'Grim Reaper' or simply a symbolism of death. Interesting and quite funny was Eko's reaction when he dismissed seeing a "bright light", insinuating he saw something absolutely terrible - "that is not what I saw".

I still do not agree with the Black Smoke playing the role of "Judge, Jury and Executioner", especially in Eko's case as he had repented and was on a religious path even though he had done terrible things in the past. Though this is another matter entirely.

Regarding your second post, are you stating that the Black Smoke manipulated Locke in some way? Locke has been manipulated on MANY occasions and perhaps even Jacob is doing the same?

The 'forces' on the Island that led Locke along the RIGHT path in Seasons 1 and 2 [and beyond], seemed to also lead him down the WRONG path. They manipulated him somewhat and gave him mixed instructions and signs. Though perhaps that was HIS fault; citing the example of finding the Swan before the Pearl - WHICH was supposed to happen?

[Miss Austen]

Hi Reed,

Yes, I think the Black Smoke did manipulate Locke in a way. The first time Locke saw it he faced it down and it was a pleasant experience.

The second time Locke saw the Black Smoke, he didn't run away and the smoke tried to drag him down a hole until Jack saved Locke and prevented this happening.

If the black smoke wasn't death or a symbol of death why did it bash poor Eko about so much? It just seemed to me that Eko wouldn't humble himself before the black smoke. His conscience was clear in that his previous bad actions were justified (to him). Looking at this in an extreme way and I don't want to turn this into a too political discussion but Hitler and Stalin probably thought their actions were justified too.

I know Eko's actions don't compare with what Hitler and Stalin did, just giving an example of how that viewpoint can lead on to much more evil actions.

I quite liked Eko and was sorry he was killed off. In my opinion the Black Smoke was too harsh with Eko but I am just trying to see it from the Black Smoke or the Black Smoke's controller's point of view.

The Others and Losties seem to think all their bad actions are justified too - so who is right?

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Miss Austen

Hi Reed,

Yes, I think the Black Smoke did manipulate Locke in a way. The first time Locke saw it he faced it down and it was a pleasant experience.

The second time Locke saw the Black Smoke, he didn't run away and the smoke tried to drag him down a hole until Jack saved Locke and prevented this happening.

If the black smoke wasn't death or a symbol of death why did it bash poor Eko about so much? It just seemed to me that Eko wouldn't humble himself before the black smoke. His conscience was clear in that his previous bad actions were justified (to him). Looking at this in an extreme way and I don't want to turn this into a too political discussion but Hitler and Stalin probably thought their actions were justified too.

I know Eko's actions don't compare with what Hitler and Stalin did, just giving an example of how that viewpoint can lead on to much more evil actions.

I quite liked Eko and was sorry he was killed off. In my opinion the Black Smoke was too harsh with Eko but I am just trying to see it from the Black Smoke or the Black Smoke's controller's point of view.

The Others and Losties seem to think all their bad actions are justified too - so who is right?

Either the Black Smoke has different "moods", a split personality or there are TWO monsters. Perhaps different entities exist within it. I think the first encounter fuelled Locke's feeling of purpose on the Island.

The think perhaps the Black Smoke was not trying to kill Locke, otherwise it would have done so. I think perhaps Ben sent it to 'collect' Locke, which is amusing as that is surely the worst kind of Chauffeur that Locke could have expected.

What is interesting is surely to be 'redeemed', one must be genuinly sorry and repent their sins, which Eko had. The Black Smoke's logic is rather aweful and unjustified. The important thing here is that Eko was truly sorry and had truly changed as a person, in spite of him justifying some of his past murders to the fake Yemi.

If anything, the Black Smoke should have punished Eko for murdering the drug dealers he met. Yet it judged him on the murder which SAVED Yemi from a life of crime, while had neither of them shot the old man upon the village terrorists' request, they would have shot more innocent people.

I suppose the Black Smoke was acting on Eko's memories and refusal to confess, while had it read his thoughts and examined his personality it would have spared his life.

You would think the Black Smoke would want to punish the likes of Kate and Sawyer. I think TPTB did not think this through and purely wanted to somehow kill Eko because he wanted to leave the show.

[Miss Austen]

Yes, I'd agree that Eko's death was a convenience rather than true to the plot but it is difficult to say that conclusively because none of us are exactly sure what the plot is!

I've lost the plot on many occasions!!

What puzzles me is why Ben denied knowing anything about The Black Smoke and then we see him unleash it against Keamy and Co!
Ben definitely speaks with forked tongue at times. There seem to be certain things that The Others keep quiet about. The Black Smoke is one of them!!!

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Miss Austen

Yes, I'd agree that Eko's death was a convenience rather than true to the plot but it is difficult to say that conclusively because none of us are exactly sure what the plot is!

I've lost the plot on many occasions!!

What puzzles me is why Ben denied knowing anything about The Black Smoke and then we see him unleash it against Keamy and Co!
Ben definitely speaks with forked tongue at times. There seem to be certain things that The Others keep quiet about. The Black Smoke is one of them!!!

Well I think TPTB manipulated the Black Smoke's character to simply kill off Eko as I think perhaps the Black Smoke was not 'meant' to judge people and punish them if need be. Though I could be wrong. One way 'around' this is that Ben ordered the Black Smoke to kill Eko.

It never repeated the act with anyone else inspite of Locke's "we're next" [Eko's last words]. Why has it not 'confronted' anyone else and why on Earth did it convict Eko of that particular murder and not any of his others?

Well that was merely one of Ben's lies.

I know in time we will find out more about the Black Smoke and I suppose it will be worth the wait. It would be nice to receive a little snippet of imformaton about it soon. Though perhaps we DID when Ben ordered it to kill Keamy's men.

[Magnovey Phoenix]

Hey you two.
Interesting what you both said but still I think Cerberus is... was defense system established by Dharma but after the accident (which is said on the blast door) Cerberus kinda mutated or something like that. But still it was in a possession of a Dharma and that's how Ben controlled it. After all they've took all from Dharma right? Why not their defence system too?

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Magnovey Phoenix

Hey you two.
Interesting what you both said but still I think Cerberus is... was defense system established by Dharma but after the accident (which is said on the blast door) Cerberus kinda mutated or something like that. But still it was in a possession of a Dharma and that's how Ben controlled it. After all they've took all from Dharma right? Why not their defence system too?

Hi Magnovey,

Rousseau claimed it was a Security System so you are correct there. Did the Blast Door state it mutated or is that a theory? It sounds very plausible indeed, I like that idea. I suppose many have theorised that the Black Smoke was created by Dharma but to my recollection we have not yet discovered any concrete evidence. However, it could very well be true. It would explain 'where' it came from and 'how' Ben was able to control it.

By the way, I think the incident was something to do with the Swan, as Inman explained the button needed to be pushed after the "electromagetism leak". But I could be wrong.

Perhaps if the incident did NOT cause the Black Smoke to develop it's own mind, then perhaps something else happened along the road. Perhaps it needed maintenance and when Dharma were Purged it became out of control.

[Magnovey Phoenix]

Hey Reed!

Originally Posted by Reed

Did the Blast Door state it mutated or is that a theory?

I found one excellent site about Dharma and it's history (fan made) and there it has this map on the blast door (you know the one I'm talking about?). If you look very closely you can see some descriptions. Well a guy from that site deciphered the words and one sentence says something about Cerberus that his system malfunctioned during the incident in the Swan. I'll post a picture of it!

Originally Posted by Reed

but to my recollection we have not yet discovered any concrete evidence.

You're right! But I hope soon they will tell us. I think they will not reveal it's secret just at the end of season 6 (the final season). I just hope it's not some crappy theory...

Originally Posted by Reed

It would explain 'where' it came from and 'how' Ben was able to control it.

Have you seen his arms? Ben's arms. Like he dug something... What was he doing down there...

Originally Posted by Reed

By the way, I think the incident was something to do with the Swan, as Inman explained the button needed to be pushed after the "electromagetism leak". But I could be wrong.

Aham , you're right! It was elektromagnetic leak. It says on the Orientation film. By the way, what do you think where can I find all of the Orientation films?

Originally Posted by Reed

Perhaps it needed maintenance and when Dharma were Purged it became out of control.

I like this idea very much! Who knows what was going on there! I don't even understand why was there a Purging at all!

[Magnovey Phoenix]

Hey Reed!
Here it is! The piece of a map from a blast door but deciphered.



Now what do you think?

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Magnovey Phoenix

Hey Reed!
Here it is! The piece of a map from a blast door but deciphered.



Now what do you think?
Hey Reed!
I foun