New Meaning to the words "I was coming for YOU, John!"

[D-Roc]

The moment still brings a chill to my spine. I'm not sensationalising..it really did. Back in season 2 when Ben (the then 'Henry Gale') told Locke "I was coming for you, John", it planted the seeds for what was to become a brand new protagonist battle.

We didn't know it then, but Ben was struggling to hold onto his "chosen one" status and Locke was Jacob's/the islands new bit on the side..only he had always been heir to the throne.

So, with that (and there's alot more shannigans that I missed out), can we derive Ben's messing with Locke's mind down in the hatch - you know, "I never pressed the button *chortle, chortle *" and all that jazz - in a new light?

Seeing as Ben was probably telling the truth..he probbaly WAS there for John..perhaps scouting him to see what all the fuss was about. No doubt Ben was thrilled when he discovered that Jacob's new skirt was actually a plate-smashing, easily wound-up man of scie..no wait..faith? Science. Faith. Hunter.

[monster-eats-pilot]

Ah Roco you and your Ben/Locke loving.

I agree though I was thinking about this the other day.

[Miss Austen]

It sort of implies that the 'chosen one' goes through an apprenticeship/test/initiation of sorts doesn't it?

Jack like Ben never wanted to press the button but Locke did want to press the button. Desmond had pressed the button but wanted to get out of the responsibility!

Ben sorta looks down on John Locke and doesn't feel he's worthy enough to replace him!

[Miss Austen]

Something else has just occurred to me. If John Locke is now the leader of the Others, will he (like Ben before him) have the power to control the black smoke?

[monster-eats-pilot]

Now that is a good point. I don't think so though because Ben hasnt told him how to control Smokey baby.

[Miss Austen]

Apart from Locke killing the parachutist girl Naomi? (which seemed completely out of character) I can't imagine John Locke wanting to use the black smoke to kill people, unless they were completely hard core people like Keamy.

Jack threatened to kill Locke at one point but Locke knew Jack wouldn't do it because Jack tries to prolong life not take it.

I've noticed that motivation to murder seems to be a recurring topic on Lost.

Kate murdered her father (stepfather) because he knocked her Mum around.

Sawyer killed a man whom he thought had caused the killings and breakdown of his parents lives.

We've yet to discover why Ben thought it justifiable to murder all those Dharma folks. Haven't we? I must rewatch on more old episodes

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by monster-eats-pilot

Ah Roco you and your Ben/Locke loving.

Someone's got to

Originally Posted by Miss Austen

It sort of implies that the 'chosen one' goes through an apprenticeship/test/initiation of sorts doesn't it?

Indeed, Locke for instance has had to go through all kinds of tests throught his life..it kinda makes you wonder how many of his tribulation were all part of the "design"..

Jack like Ben never wanted to press the button but Locke did want to press the button. Desmond had pressed the button but wanted to get out of the responsibility!

To this day i'm still amazed that John ever managed to convince Jack to press the button, but I guess this is partly what Locke means when he tells Jack "deep down you know you're here for a reason" (or words to that effect), cos deep down Jack has perhaps always known..it's just that committing to that notion scares him..how can he place his faith in 'buttons' and islands, when the last time he had faith in something, it hurt him deeply - Sarah. I guess that's kinda where Jack's hang-ups with faith come from..that and his father and all that entails.

Ben sorta looks down on John Locke and doesn't feel he's worthy enough to replace him!

Interesting. I can kinda see that..certainly Ben condecends John from time to time, and you're right, Ben perhaps doubts that John is able/ready to replace him - "I was unable to seperate emotions with command decisions..but i'm sure you'll be able to do better, John" (words to that effect) - a self-depreciating but also patronising comment.

Although I do detect that Ben respects..and even 'likes', John. The pair share many common traits and seem so at ease with one another..compared to the often tense relationship that they both share with Jack.

Originally Posted by Miss Austen

Something else has just occurred to me. If John Locke is now the leader of the Others, will he (like Ben before him) have the power to control the black smoke?

Originally Posted by monster-eats-pilot

Now that is a good point. I don't think so though because Ben hasnt told him how to control Smokey baby.

I'm not sure Ben could ever 'control' smokey, as such. I think that he had limited use of Smokey..perhaps able to release him. Ben still seems to retain some fear of Smokey, and I think there's much he doesn't know of the island guardian, as alluded to in Cabin Fever when he told Locke that Jacob is the best go2guy for all things 'Smoke' related.

That said, I think that Alpert and the Others (or rather "Natives" now that most of Ben's recruited neo-Natives have been killed) are key in teaching and training the 'chosen one':

Ben: "They're always willing and able, to share all they know.." (words to that effect in reference to Alpert and the Natives - 4.13)

[Bass-mastaa]

I'm intruiged with waht Locke will be like as the new leader of the others. I guess i mean like , will he 'revert' to their current way of living , will her try to recruit the remanents of the survivors and Will he be a ruthless leader ?

[monster-eats-pilot]

Only time will tell....

[Miss Austen]

Ben goes in for manipulation tactics. John Locke points out that isn't his style. He told Ben, "I'm not you".

I'm just wondering why Ben has fallen out of favour of being the chosen one - what sparked it? He got a tumour on his spine which Jack fixed and now Ben's daughter has been killed. It seems like someone has it in for Ben!

Jack turned the manipulation stakes back onto Ben by cutting one of Ben's arteries during the tumour removal operation. Being hoist by your own petard springs to mind.

Jack and Locke haven't always seen eye to eye but I feel Jack hates Ben's manipulations and his stalling tactics for disallowing them to leave the island. With Locke, I think Jack feels Locke is just misguided.

Has Locke failed as a leader or are we just being led to believe he has failed? That will be an interesting discovery next series. They hint at Locke's failure by his being in a coffin having supposedly committed suicide and Richard's apparent disapproval when Locke chose a knife for one of his belongings.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Bass-mastaa

I'm intruiged with waht Locke will be like as the new leader of the others. I guess i mean like , will he 'revert' to their current way of living , will her try to recruit the remanents of the survivors and Will he be a ruthless leader ?

Yeah, this will be VERY interesting..

Could the change of name to Bentham indicate that Locke will indeed change?

I don't think he will be ruthless, but i think he'll have to become alot more 'hardened' and 'weary', so to speak

[TimeTravellingBunny]

Originally Posted by Miss Austen

It sort of implies that the 'chosen one' goes through an apprenticeship/test/initiation of sorts doesn't it?

Jack like Ben never wanted to press the button but Locke did want to press the button. Desmond had pressed the button but wanted to get out of the responsibility!

Ben sorta looks down on John Locke and doesn't feel he's worthy enough to replace him!

Originally Posted by D-Roc

Interesting. I can kinda see that..certainly Ben condecends John from time to time, and you're right, Ben perhaps doubts that John is able/ready to replace him - "I was unable to seperate emotions with command decisions..but i'm sure you'll be able to do better, John" (words to that effect) - a self-depreciating but also patronising comment.

Although I do detect that Ben respects..and even 'likes', John. The pair share many common traits and seem so at ease with one another..compared to the often tense relationship that they both share with Jack.

I think they both respect, even admire, and despise each other at the same time. If Ben seems to look down on Locke at times... it's vice versa as well. You see a bit of mutual contempt when John says "I'm not you" (obviously meaning "I wouldn't want ever to be like you") in Cabin Fever and Ben retorts "No, you're not". Or when Locke told Sawyer in Confirmed Dead that Ben was "harmless except for his mouth" (and that after Ben had shoot him and left him for dead). Kind of hard to believe that he actually believed that... to me it sounded more like, trying to put Ben into his place, so to speak. After surviving the gunshot, he felt like he was protected by the island and Ben couldn't hurt him whatever he might try.

People keep saying that Locke was a sucker because he let Ben manipulate him over and over... but in season 3 and 4, he didn't manipulate him into anything Locke wouldn't want to do anyway, as with blowing the submarine. He knew that, even if he was destined to replace Ben, Ben had the knowledge about the island that he didn't, so he didn't mind being 'manipulated' if he ended up getting what he wanted, which he eventually did.