r.i.p anthony cooper NOT!

[The_other_other]

Originally Posted by jenshtie

Now Anthony's dead doesn't that mean sawyer's story is kinda, over.

yeah. I think he might be in a bit of danger now

[Easily confused]

Originally Posted by jenshtie

Now Anthony's dead doesn't that mean sawyer's story is kinda, over.

I hope not - I did wonder if now Sawyer has had his revenge does this mean he no longer wishes to be called Sawyer (I have noticed last few episodes he has been called James or Ford more frequently) but surely his story can't be over

[esn]

Originally Posted by Labyrinth

He totally deserved it - and by Sawyers hand too.**He had no remorse for what he did and if you are prepared to take another man's life so easily and in cold blood you can expect redemption.

As Locke so rightly said, 'he had it coming.'

I would hate to cross you, I really would. having it coming is not justification for taking somones life. Would you like it if the family of that guy who Sawyer killed did the same? where would it end? we would have an blood bath. You cant tell me that deserving it is any justification for killing the guy. His life was not his to take, noones is.

[Jen]

Originally Posted by Easily confused

I hope not - I did wonder if now Sawyer has had his revenge does this mean he no longer wishes to be called Sawyer (I have noticed last few episodes he has been called James or Ford more frequently) but surely his story can't be over

yeah.. i think sawyer suits him better!

but like all hsi flashbacks have been about him conning people and wanting revenge etc. And well, after people's stories are over they kinda.. die don't they. Like Shannon and Ana, im scared

[Jen]

Originally Posted by The_other_other

yeah. I think he might be in a bit of danger now

noooo. I don't think they'll have the guts to do anything to him, i mean he's far to popular!

[esn]

Well I hope Saywer, even after tonight doesnt die. However, many characters do tend to meet their maker not long after they have carthasis for their past life - Boone, Ana Lucia, Shannon, Eko.

[Him]

Maybe Kate's not the only exception that proves the rule. :P

[Labyrinth]

Originally Posted by esn

I would hate to cross you, I really would. having it coming is not justification for taking somones life. Would you like it if the family of that guy who Sawyer**killed did the same? where would it end? we would have an blood bath. You cant tell me that deserving it is any justification for killing the guy. His life was not his to take, noones is.

Well one thing we have to remember is - this is a FICTIONAL series - and considering the set up and circumstances of Lost, Cooper's killing imo is perfectly justifiable. That does not however mean that I condone ppl taking other ppl's lives as an act of vengance - as you said there would be no end to something like that in reality and it would be a blood bath. I totally agree. But I do not take back how I feel about Coopers death - it is a very human reaction what Sawyer did or was pushed to do - considering the guy who effectively killed his parents and messed up his life showed no remorse whatsoever and in fact taunted him and belittled his anguish right till the end. I guess its very easy to get on a moral high ground sitting comfortably in our chairs but unless you yourself can put yourself in that position, I would love to have seen what you'd have done or how you'd have reacted. So yeh, put into context, I can totally see why Locke said, 'he had it coming'.

[Him]

There's also the problem of practicality - while I agree no one has the right to decide who deserves to live and who doesn't, I wouldn't consider letting Cooper loose on the jungle a wise move - he's a monster, and couldn't really be kept prisoner for the rest of his life, as he would in real life (well actually not in his home state I don't believe. He probably would have had the death penalty).

[esn]

Originally Posted by Labyrinth

Well one thing we have to remember is - this is a FICTIONAL series**and considering the set up and circumstances of Lost, Cooper's killing imo is perfectly justifiable

But it is set in a real life setting (ok stretching things a bit there) and this deals with people, who we could bump into on the street, hence proper morales and values need to be applied here. The setting is this world, this life, this moral code. And under that, how can it be justifyable.**

That does not however mean that I condone ppl taking other ppl's lives as an act of vengance - as you said there would be no end to something like that in reality and it would be a blood bath.**I totally agreegood glad to hear it.**But I do not take back how I feel about Coopers death - it is a very human reaction what Sawyer did or was pushed to do - considering the guy who effectively killed his parents

has he said, he had no idea that Sawyers parents would over react

and messed up his life showed no remorse whatsoever and in fact taunted him and belittled his anguish right till the end.**I guess its very easy to get on a moral high ground sitting comfortably in our chairs but unless you yourself can put yourself in that position, I would love to have seen what you'd have done or how you'd have reacted.**So yeh, put into context, I can totally see why Locke said, 'he had it coming'.

Reason to get angry and maybe hit him around a bit, yeah understandable, i could have lived with that, yes worng but all the same. But to kill a guy? I couldnt be cabaple of that, no matter what. Ok I dont know for sure, having not been through what he went through. But Ive said it before and Ill say it again, it was not Saywers to take. You cant just kill a guy because they did you a great worng and belittle you for feeling angry. Sawyer should have learnt from the last time that revenge gets you no where in this world, it may take away the pain for a little while, but that soon gets consumed by guilt and anguish and makes you want to hate even more. It takes a big man to turn the other cheek and say I forgive you. Ok I dont expect Sawyer to go that far but would have been more preferable, to killing the guy.**It makes you has big a monster has he it if that is your optin and I like to think that noone on here is like that, but judgeing by some comments tonight... I wont go has far to say that noone deserves that, but i will come close to it.

[Labyrinth]

Originally Posted by esn

But it is set in a real life setting (ok stretching things a bit there) and this deals with people, who we could bump into on the street, hence proper morales and values need to be applied here. The setting is this world, this life, this moral code. And under that, how can it be justifyable.**

has he said, he had no idea that Sawyers parents would over react

Reason to get angry and maybe hit him around a bit, yeah understandable, i could have lived with that, yes worng but all the same. But to kill a guy? I couldnt be cabaple of that, no matter what. Ok I dont know for sure, having not been through what he went through. But Ive said it before and Ill say it again, it was not Saywers to take. You cant just kill a guy because they did you a great worng and belittle you for feeling angry. Sawyer should have learnt from the last time that revenge gets you no where in this world, it may take away the pain for a little while, but that soon gets consumed by guilt and anguish and makes you want to hate even more. It takes a big man to turn the other cheek and say I forgive you. Ok I dont expect Sawyer to go that far but would have been more preferable, to killing the guy.**It makes you has big a monster has he it if that is your optin and I like to think that noone on here is like that, but judgeing by some comments tonight... I wont go has far to say that noone deserves that, but i will come close to it.

I understand and respect some of your points. I believe in forgiveness but I do not beleive in 'turn the other cheek' as you put it. I do beleive in the right that a person has to defend himself when being attacked (I know this doesn't apply to sawyer but my belief that it is not okay for some-one to violate you while you 'turn the other cheek'). I also do beleive that murder and the like is not something that should go unpunished. If you are prepared to violate other's rights and even take them then you should also quite justly be prepared for the consequences. True, Cooper's killing was not done in the right way but considering they are on an island and there is no-one to uphold the law there as it were.

Also have to reiterate what others said about Cooper being a real danger. Despite everything he has done, all the evil crimes he has comitted (against Locke, Sawyer and numerous others) - as if that wasn't enough - he would have been a real danger to be kept alive, and for what purpose? So that he can kill again, most likely his own son? I know I would much prefer him dead than Locke. You can only truly forgive some-one imo if they are truly repentant - and what we clearly saw was the contrary.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[TheDharmaShark]

Gotta hand it to Cooper, he signed off with some funny quotes

"That bald headed %^&*$!@# out there is my son!"
"I'm not your daddy am I?"

[esn]

Originally Posted by Labyrinth

I understand and respect some of your points.��I believe in forgiveness but I do not beleive in 'turn the other cheek' as you put it.��I do beleive in the right that a person has to defend himself when being attacked (I know this doesn't apply to sawyer but my belief that it is not okay for some-one to violate you while you 'turn the other cheek').��I also do beleive that murder and the like is not something that should go unpunished.��If you are prepared to violate other's rights and even take them then you should also quite justly be prepared for the consequences.��True, Cooper's killing was not done in the right way but considering they are on an island and there is no-one to uphold the law there as it were.

Also have to reiterate what others said about Cooper being a real danger.��Despite everything he has done, all the evil crimes he has comitted (against Locke, Sawyer and numerous others) - as if that wasn't enough - he would have been a real danger to be kept alive, and for what purpose?��So that he can kill again, most likely his own son?��I know I would much prefer him dead than Locke.��You can only truly forgive some-one imo if they are truly repentant - and what we clearly saw was the contrary.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Likewise. I didnt mean to come across badly Im just passionate I guess. And I understand that. But Sawyer was hardly defending himself was he? AC was pretty much helpless in that situation and couldnt fight back. By your own logic, Sawyer should be killed in the same way because of what he has done, which Im sure you can agree is an awful prospect and shouldnt happen. And in such a secenoiro, holding on to our law and order is what keeps us Human and civilised, stops us from decending to the beasts that we ultimatly are.

I normally agrue against the death penalty on the grounds that a person should be made to suffer with what they have done but clearly that wasnt the case here so i wont argue that. And yes he doesnt exactly deserve forgivness, but isnt that what being the better person is about though? Sawyer, effectlvly lowered himself down to Mr Coopers level, has opposed to seeing the fuitlity of it all at the very least and realising that it wont end his pain. Mr Cooper was a bad and sadistic man, no question, and yes he was dangerous. But if you could easily say the same about Kate, that tourturing machine Sayid and indeed Sawyer (ok a bit ott there but you get my point) But the others had the faclities to deal with Mr Cooper quite comfortablty. Also I think we saw that Locke had a pretty tight grip on things, although one slip and... i see your point to a degree there.

We can agree to disagree yes but its much more fun to keep debating a little more dont you think?