Kelvin Inman

[Blloydy]

Originally Posted by E PLURIBUS UNUM,March 13, 2007 10:11 pm

But it's not that simple. Within Dharma there is a divide - those that want the 'hostiles' dead and others that don't (and Ben's possie is born). However, Ben is just a mere test-tube cleaner and holds no power over Dharma. So (most of) Dharma go to slaughter the hostiles - but Dharma have underestimated the 'hostiles' (enter smokey?) and *most* of Dharma are killed themselves. A few men survive - i.e. Ben and a few select 'others'.

Something just occured to me - Ben said he had been on the island his whole life - I know this may be unreliable, but if we were to beleive him, doesn't that suggest he is in fact an other, a native who has always lived on the island? I think that the others may have originally come from the black rock and when Dharma came along, they didn't like their island being intruded, so took action to stop it, and took over the stations, cleansing the island of Dharma, there may, of course have been a breakaway group from Dharma who joined the others. But that's just my theory.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by Lostie,March 14, 2007 11:32 pm

Something just occured to me - Ben said he had been on the island his whole life - I know this may be unreliable, but if we were to beleive him, doesn't that suggest he is in fact an other, a native who has always lived on the island? I think that the others may have originally come from the black rock and when Dharma came along, they didn't like their island being intruded, so took action to stop it, and took over the stations, cleansing the island of Dharma, there may, of course have been a breakaway group from Dharma who joined the others. But that's just my theory.

What age would we say Ben is - 40s? With that in mind it's possible that he was, like many others it seems, brought to the island before he was born. OR, maybe he was a 'hostile' infant when Dharma took over and, like Alex/Dani, Dharma (the now 'Others') decided to raise him as their own...

[Him]

I don't doubt Ben's claim over living his life on the Island.

I do however doubt the suggested and continued opposition between the two forces, but I'm too tired to go in depth with it.

[*SP*]

Originally Posted by Lostie,March 14, 2007 07:48 pm

The only problem that I have with this is that we saw the teddy bear.. Didn't we see one of the children with it at the start? Which would make the others and the hostiles the same people. Although, maybe we didn't see the bear at the start - I'm not sure

We did see a child dragging the teddy when Michael and Eko (?) were hiding in the undergrowth. This is when it kind of emerged that they may be yet another group who were somewhat different to Ben, Tom and Ethan etc....the bare feet, moving without a trail and all that.

But, in SiaSL, when Cindy passes Jacks' cage with the kids, one of them still has the teddy. On the surface I'd say that suggests that the people who walked past Michael and Eko were our others...unless it wasn't Bens' people who took the kids but this other group, and now Ben has managed to get the kids back, away from these more 'savage' appearing others.

[Pynch]

Hmmm - as a result of reading this thread, I'm now thinking that Kelvin was not Dharma, that he was an Other. But I'm still not sure

Someone has to push the button (as we now know) - so whether it was a Dharma operative or an Other, someone would need to be living in that hatch, so the fact that he was installed there doesn't say one way or another whether he was Dharma or Other.

Now, Kelvin wasn't afraid of the quarantine situation, and you'd assume that real Dharma operatives would be. Nevertheless, he was taking the vaccine, but this is something which both Dharma and Others have stocks of (which might indicate they are one and the same - agreed ).

The thing that gets me was that he was continuing Radzinski's work on mapping the island. Now, if Kelvin was an Other, he wouldn't need to do this would he?

Although, I would like the reason for him having to 'escape' the island was because he didn't agree with Ben's domination, and Ben wouldn't allow him to leave any other way - I'm not sure Kelvin was really an Other.

OR maybe Kelvin was placed there by the Others as if he was a Dharma operative - so was shown the video, taken through the rationale of the button, and persuaded to stay (much like K persuaded Desmond to stay) - so although K was doing the work of Dharma, he wasn't actually recruited by Dharma.......

[Blloydy]

Originally Posted by E PLURIBUS UNUM,March 15, 2007 12:50 am

What age would we say Ben is - 40s? With that in mind it's possible that he was, like many others it seems, brought to the island before he was born. OR, maybe he was a 'hostile' infant when Dharma took over and, like Alex/Dani, Dharma (the now 'Others') decided to raise him as their own...

Yeah, Jack said he was about 40 - from the x-rays. I like the idea of him being an other all along, it would make more senec, although they always say that no one is in charge, it is quite clear that Ben is their leader. And even if he had been there since an infant, they would be inlikley to make him leader unless he was truley one of their own, unless he got there by force.

[Blloydy]

Originally Posted by Him,March 15, 2007 01:28 am

I don't doubt Ben's claim over living his life on the Island.

I do however doubt the suggested and continued opposition between the two forces, but I'm too tired to go in depth with it.

It's hard to tell sometimes, we only know what is true if it is from a Lostie's point of veiw (with the exeption of Juliette) Because we know what happened witht hem, we saw, it is happening at present, but with the others, we either have to trust them or get a flashback. Juliette did say Ben was a liar, but how can we know? I'm not sure if Ben was telling the truth, but I'm assuming he is.. for now.

By two forces, do you mean Other/Hostile and Dharma or Other and Hostile?

[Blloydy]

Originally Posted by *SP*,March 15, 2007 10:16 am

We did see a child dragging the teddy when Michael and Eko (?) were hiding in the undergrowth. This is when it kind of emerged that they may be yet another group who were somewhat different to Ben, Tom and Ethan etc....the bare feet, moving without a trail and all that.

I see where you're coming from, the way they were described by Eko "I know they took your son, but you have no idea what these people are capable of, and they will not be found if they don't want to be" They seem much more mysterious and dangerous than the others we know, although they are also dangerous But we saw them dressed up in rags and then Kate found the costumes, I think that the others are the hostiles.

But, in SiaSL, when Cindy passes Jacks' cage with the kids, one of them still has the teddy.  On the surface I'd say that suggests that the people who walked past Michael and Eko were our others...unless it wasn't Bens' people who took the kids but this other group, and now Ben has managed to get the kids back, away from these more 'savage' appearing others. 

Hmm, this idea made me think about my idea of the others and hostiles being one, it is possible, and sounds more interesting than my theory :P It makes Ben sound quite heroic and caring, but Juliette said that he would kill Karl if he went back with Alex, and he was in the brainwashing room.. I'm not sure it's all about who we think is telling the truth - but Alex did seem to accept this so that suggests that Juliette was in fact telling the truth. So Does Ben really care that much about children? He went to alot of bother to try and get Aaron, but then they gave up.

[Blloydy]

Originally Posted by Pynch,March 15, 2007 11:54 am

Hmmm - as a result of reading this thread, I'm now thinking that Kelvin was not Dharma, that he was an Other. But I'm still not sure

Someone has to push the button (as we now know) - so whether it was a Dharma operative or an Other, someone would need to be living in that hatch, so the fact that he was installed there doesn't say one way or another whether he was Dharma or Other.

Now, Kelvin wasn't afraid of the quarantine situation, and you'd assume that real Dharma operatives would be. Nevertheless, he was taking the vaccine, but this is something which both Dharma and Others have stocks of (which might indicate they are one and the same - agreed ).

Good point about the quarantine, if it was put there by dharma, it was obviously to keep them down there, and the others, probably being quite native before stealing all of the Dharma facilities would spend alot of time outside. So this may suggest he is an other. Although, I'm still not sure about them being the same (others and Dharma) Now, yes, some may have joined forces, but before the 'purge' - I can't seem to warm to this idea - maybe it will grow on me though :P

The thing that gets me was that he was continuing Radzinski's work on mapping the island.  Now, if Kelvin was an Other, he wouldn't need to do this would he?

Although, I would like the reason for him having to 'escape' the island was because he didn't agree with Ben's domination, and Ben wouldn't allow him to leave any other way - I'm not sure Kelvin was really an Other.

Perhaps he was a break away group from the others? It's all a bit contradictory for there to be just two simple groups

OR  maybe Kelvin was placed there by the Others as if he was a Dharma operative - so was shown the video, taken through the rationale of the button, and persuaded to stay (much like K persuaded Desmond to stay) - so although K was doing the work of Dharma, he wasn't actually recruited by Dharma.......

I really like this idea, the others managed to get Juliette from the real world be acting like something similar to Dharma - Richard Alpert said it was a Bioscience called Mitteloss, (or that's what I'm guessing because it was only a little more than 3 years earlier and we saw Ethan there) So they could have done the same with Kelvin.

[firebreathingfishies]

Lookit me digging up dead threads

No, I've been re-watching season 2 and (i haven't bothered reading this thread so it's probably already been pointed out years ago) and I've been thinking about Kelvin and decided he was definately Dharma... but you know... I want to sound clever

Kelvin said he joined Dharma after something went wrong when he was in the army (eg. round about the time Sayid first started torturing) I'm not sure when the Purge came about, but it couldn't have been too long ago... perhaps 5 or 6 years? A little before Juliet got there and of course Ben needed time to establish his leaderness. So I think it's safe to say Kelvin had to have signed up for hatch duty before gas time. But he wouldn't have known about the purge, as by then (i'm assuming) Randinsky was dead and Kelvin didn't have the time to get in contact with the other Dharmaites (so in theory, he was a survivor of the purge which makes me wonder if there could be anymore?)

Kelvin knew about the hostiles also, which aids the idea that he was part of Dharma and he knew what was going on. I believe he knew exactly what the button was for, and what the incident was, although when confronted by our Desmond (just before he was killed) he didn't want to admit it was so, as he finally had a way of getting off the island (or so he thought LOL)

You know... I've lost train of thought... I had more to say than this but it's left. I'm going to keep coming back to this, because I'm curious about ickle Kelvin

[Him]

Originally Posted by Him

I don't doubt Ben's claim over living his life on the Island.

I do however doubt the suggested and continued opposition between the two forces, but I'm too tired to go in depth with it.

Woops.

[firebreathingfishies]