Mean Girls

[Audio Pineapple]

Susan didn't cheat on him with Bryan?

Susan didn't break his heart by leaving him? Didn't break his heart by taking his son away?

Susan didn't twist the knife in by making him feel inadequate compared to her and Bryan? By practically forcing him to sign Walt over for adoption?

[Lost_obsesed_Jade]

Susan was as nice about it as possible, she paid for Micheals medical bills, she always asked very politely...
Sarah insulted Jack time and time again over a very decent trait of his, and despite all he was willing to offer her wasnt willing to give him the one thing he asked for, the one thing he needed... even though it wouldnt affect her in the slightest if he knew

[Audio Pineapple]

But the fact is that it wasn't a decent trait - Jack was obsessed with fixing every single thing and every single person - it was his equvilent of Christian's alcoholism.

And of course it would affect her! You saw how angry he was with her throughout the entire episode - obviously alluding to some rage issues and he attacked his own father when he thought that he might have been with her - goodness knows what he would do if he found out who the man was!

[Laura~J]

not telling your husband the name of the guy you cheated on him with is hardly as bad as cutting off your contact with your son, surely?

[Murgatroyd]

Superficial and ultimately cunning 'politeness' means precisely nothing when the motive behind it is seeming reasonable enough to make the father of your child falsely believe it's in the kid's best interests if he never sees it again.

[Audio Pineapple]

It isn't as bad imo Laura - and I forgot to add to my earlier reply that Susan wasn't very nice. At every possible oppertuinity she was saying that Michael couldn't provide for Walt, basically diminishing him as a father, a male and a human.

[Lost_obsesed_Jade]

Originally Posted by Audio Pineapple,November 23, 2006 09:01 pm

But the fact is that it wasn't a decent trait - Jack was obsessed with fixing every single thing and every single person - it was his equvilent of Christian's alcoholism.

And of course it would affect her! You saw how angry he was with her throughout the entire episode - obviously alluding to some rage issues and he attacked his own father when he thought that he might have been with her - goodness knows what he would do if he found out who the man was!

If she had told him, he would have just left it, he would have lft her alone, rather than keep trying to find out.
he's a doctor, he;s ment to fix things'... i'd be grateful if i had someone that willing to put everything on the line to make something better... so he was addicted to it, but unlike the aclohol addiction, it did no-one any harm, only could do good. And it may have taken a lot of his time, but he still made time for her. 5am, working all night he was willing to sit up and talk with her because he thought she was down... but she shoved him away. he made every effort in there marriage, but she never did.

and i admit that isnt so bad laura, but it's that on top of everything else she did

[Lost_obsesed_Jade]

Originally Posted by Audio Pineapple,November 23, 2006 09:03 pm

It isn't as bad imo Laura - and I forgot to add to my earlier reply that Susan wasn't very nice. At every possible oppertuinity she was saying that Michael couldn't provide for Walt, basically diminishing him as a father, a male and a human.

He had just been in an accident, she was right that he needed to get his life sorted out, and that it would be so hard with Walt there... she was doing what was best for him, and what was bewst for walt, because he wouldnt have been able to provide at that time

[Audio Pineapple]

Jack's obsession was not harmless - it is precisly what drove Sarah away from him in the first place! And Christian was worried about it - meaning that their already fragile relationship was damaged further.

And it was this need to fix things that meant that he wouldn't stop harrassing Sarah after she declared that she wanted a divorce. He kept badgering her - literally stalking her at at least one point to pry into her life that was, quite frankly, privet.

And it did do harm - both Boone and the Marshal were unsavable, unfixable - both asked to be put out of their suffering but Jack didn't care about the pain, he wasn't going to let go and he wasn't going to stop trying to be the miracle worker who could save the world and be the hero he was told he couldn't be.

[Audio Pineapple]

Originally Posted by Lost_obsesed_Jade,November 23, 2006 10:08 pm

He had just been in an accident, she was right that he needed to get his life sorted out, and that it would be so hard with Walt there... she was doing what was best for him, and what was bewst for walt, because he wouldnt have been able to provide at that time

At The Time!

But she wouldn't let Michael visit Walt, didn't give a damn enough about him to let Walt know that Michael so much as gave him a second thought which obviously affected Walt when he asked why, if Michael cared, he didn't write...

So how was that in Walt's best intrest?

And it's not like Bryan cared about him - he offloaded Walt the moment he could. A step-parent who can provide money and no love is surely worse than one who can provide love without money.

[Lost_obsesed_Jade]

He had just had his heart broken, and he struggles to let go, thats why Christian worried. She made him have to go through letting go, she made him break down and Christian have to worry about him.

He wasn't trying to fix it, like he said, he was willing to give her everything,and walk away... just for the name, thats all he wanted the name... why? He just wanted to know who was sleeping with his wife... he just needed to know that so he could let go, thats the only reason he wouldnt stop bugging her

Um, if i remember correctly, the only person the marshal asked to put him out of his misery was Kate, he told Jack nothing but he wantedto see kate, and when she didnt do it, it was jack he did at the end
And when Boone asked him to stop trying to fix him, he did.

[Lost_obsesed_Jade]

Originally Posted by Audio Pineapple,November 23, 2006 09:16 pm

At The Time!

But she wouldn't let Michael visit Walt, didn't give a damn enough about him to let Walt know that Michael so much as gave him a second thought which obviously affected Walt when he asked why, if Michael cared, he didn't write...

So how was that in Walt's best intrest?

And it's not like Bryan cared about him - he offloaded Walt the moment he could. A step-parent who can provide money and no love is surely worse than one who can provide love without money.

It was what she thought was best. She thought Bryan cared.

Maybe it was bryan who made her say Micheal couldnt visit

The way she acyted... she was so sorry half the time, so sympathetic... i believe she nver wanted to hurt him
and after all, she let Walt come meet him in the park

[Audio Pineapple]

Originally Posted by Lost_obsesed_Jade,November 23, 2006 10:19 pm

He had just had his heart broken, and he struggles to let go, thats why Christian worried. She made him have to go through letting go, she made him break down and Christian have to worry about him.

He wasn't trying to fix it, like he said, he was willing to give her everything,and walk away... just for the name, thats all he wanted the name... why? He just wanted to know who was sleeping with his wife... he just needed to know that so he could let go, thats the only reason he wouldnt stop bugging her

Um, if i remember correctly, the only person the marshal asked to put him out of his misery was Kate, he told Jack nothing but he wantedto see kate, and when she didnt do it, it was jack he did at the end
And when Boone asked him to stop trying to fix him, he did.

What - so he wasn't obsessed with fixing people before that? And Christian was worried before that - he was worried when Jack was a child that Jack couldn't cope and he was worried in the MOSMOF flashbacks that Jack was too clinical and now he was worried Jack was too emotional. So the breakup was just the latest string of this worry - not the cause of it.

And why should he be allowed to know? Isn't it a bit sickening how he tried to buy her off - suggesting that the only thing she gave a damn about was the house and the car? She has a right to keep that a secret and she shouldn't have to have him pushing her.

And notably there you left out a response to the stalking bit - that goes beyond bugging. That is criminal.

Sayid tried to convince Jack that Jack couldn't save him and it was obvious that the Marshal was in excruciating pain. Jack clearly spoke of the days and days of this he was going to make Edward suffer just so that he didn't have to do the honourable thing - which he only did because Sawyer attempted to do the honourable thing and failed at it.

Yet again he put Boone through considerable distress - ready to chop his leg off even though those around him (such as Sun) were stating this was a bad idea as it wouldn't help him and would cause more pain.

[Audio Pineapple]

Originally Posted by Lost_obsesed_Jade,November 23, 2006 10:22 pm

It was what she thought was best. She thought Bryan cared.

Maybe it was bryan who made her say Micheal couldnt visit

The way she acyted... she was so sorry half the time, so sympathetic... i believe she nver wanted to hurt him
and after all, she let Walt come meet him in the park

And she thought that Michael didn't care?

But any mother should put her son's emotional care above financial care - esspecially since she could provide for him just fine by herself.

How could she not want to hurt him by doing this? It is the cruelest thing imaginable to do to a person. She obviously cared more about her own feelings than his because she could have come up with a dozen solutions that gave her custody of Walt and him the chance to see his son!

Oh once - she let him meet his father once! How the hell is once adequate?

[Lost_obsesed_Jade]

His father was.... his father was hardly a wise man, he messed up jack, making him like that.
he wasnt suggesting that was all she cared about, he was just saying he was willing to give everything he had the power to give, which i find very sweet
And i think he does have the right to know, if he was being cheated on he should have the right to know who
Well... the stalking bit was pushing it a bit, but it wasnt like he was constantly doing it, all we know is that one day he went to watch her... at work, not at home, no invasion of privacy... he may have only been there a little while too
Jack thought the rescue planes were coming, he thought if he could keep him alive, he could get him to a hospital and save him.
Boone was in shock, and i know that when people are in shock they barely feel the pain. Plus, according to jack the leg was dead, so he wouldnt feel it anyway. And Jack thought he could save him that way, and he is the doctor, not sun