Do they all have their own 'Dave's'?

[D-Roc]

I must say, i liked this little parallel from 'Dave':


and [from Pilot 1]:



I think that this episode [more than any other] really brought it home or alluded to the fact that the island is indeed some sort of medium whereby the inner-self or subconscious manifests itself in visions, dreams and even imaginary friends [although Hurley had this 'friend' before the island aswell].

So seeing as 'Dave' represents a part of Hurley that tries harm him..a part of Hurley who pre-island manifested itself whilst Hurley was experiencing mental difficulties..could it therefore be suggested that each of their island visions/dreams are basically elements of their own minds working at a subconcious level?

What im trying to suggest is this - do they each have their own 'Dave's'? Is Kate's black horse her 'Dave'? ..was Jack's vision of his father merely his 'Dave' showing him something which would cause him trauma? ..was Charlie's 'aaron' dream simply his 'Dave' manifesting a projection that would cause Charlie great pain and loss? ...so basically are all of the dreams and visions some form of mental illness or issue that if treated in the real world would cause them to be instituationalised just like Hurley was..?

Also, are all these visions therefore the inner-self working at a heightened level with the ability and intention of causing self-harm and trauma. I mean..look what 'Dave' did to Hurley..or should i say look what 'Hurley' did to Hurley..he almost convinced himself into jumping off a cliff! ..Are all of their visions working at this level and with this intent? Is the island making them mentally ill? OR is this a statement about mental illness in that it is not an illness at all..but an ability or at least an alternate state of mind that when understood is very powerful and convincing? Could the writers of Lost be suggesting that in the real world mental illness is such a stigmatised field that it gets wrongly prescribed and treated?

I had previously believed that the dreams/visions etc on the island were all induced or controlled by some form of advanced Hanso [or Dharma] technology that tapped into the subconscious..thus allowing Hanso/Dharma to control fate, destiny and ultimately the losties [eg when Locke had the Beechcraft dream which ultimately led to Boone's early demise]. However after watching 'Dave' and applying some heavy thought..im wondering, could all these visions etc just be theffect of being on the island? Could this island have some form of chemical make-up that heightens peoples subconcious..that heightens peoples inner-self to such a level that back in the real world people experiencing such visions/dreams would be insitutionalised or prescribed medication..?

What im badly trying to say is are the Lost creators trying to suggest that mental illness is not what we think? For example, could the island be making them special? Are those with mental problems the 'real world' equivalent of those on the island? So for example is Lenny, 'special'..is his mind operating at such a heightened level that 'sane' people consider him 'crazy' when in fact he's a genius/special?

Ok, reading that back it really isnt clear what im trying to suggest..but i'll have another go later, lol :P

[Mantis Zero]

I wouldnt say they were there own "Daves" because I'm not so sure the Cerberus / black smoke was influencing Hurley back when he was in the mental hospital. Hurley's case was just more extreme and he was more easily influenced by the visions because of his mental problems, it was much easier for him to believe them than it would be for somebody like Jack who only deals in hard fact and doesnt think outside the box.

They are all being manipulated with the visions in my opinion, the only exceptions so far seem to be Jin, Sun and the tailies (and the red shirts of course, unless Scott/Steve is holding out on us) who have never encountered the more mind bending "vision" aspects of the island as yet. That is of course assuming Michael's instant message conversation never actually happened and was projected straight into his head (most likely since when Jack looked at the screen it was blank and Michael never did anything to clear the screen) and that Boone's Shannon vision was the work of Cerberus and not the wacky paste.

Quick Edit: This is going by my theory that the black smoke / cerberus is behind the visions. This may not be the case and if so I would still not place them in the same boat as Hurley who is quite clearly very troubled and in need of help. This does make you wonder though, do the visions = the sickness? Is the sickness not really a sickness at all? I'm betting this is the case, and that the quarantine and vaccines were to prevent the scientists becoming vunerable to the visions. So then the black smoke = the incident? The numbers have something to do with the black smoke?

[D-Roc]

Hmm, it is true that [for example] someone like Jack is perhaps less suceptable to visions etc because he deals in hard fact and things that are tangible..but if 'Dave' represents Hurleys subconcious then surely Jack's vision of Christian was also his subconcious [or his Dave] being influenced by the island/Cerberus ad the same goes for many of the others who have experienced such dreams/visisons etc?

Because posing the question of whether they all have their own 'Daves', I suppose what i meant is, is the island [or Cerberus?] tapping into their subconcious and 'influencing' their visions etc..thats to say that their indivdual subconcious 'also' plays a part in what they see..the island/cerberus can only give them the heightened ability to see such visions but their subconcious [or their 'Daves'] form and shape their visions. So in effect thery are subconciously controlling their own visions unbeknownst to them..for example, Dave was Hurley..or a part of Hurley who wanted to die. Also in the vision that Boone had..it could be argued that it was formed by his subconcious [his 'Dave']..a part of him who wanted Shannon to die..? Same goes with Charlie..who wanted himself to be a hero and so unbeknownst to him his subconcious [with the aid of cerberus/the island?] formed a vision whereby Aaron was in danger and he needed to save him? The same could be argued for Kate with the horse, in that subconciously she wanted to be free..free from her thoughts of Wayne etc?

So basically this isnt too different from what i had originally [and still do] think..it's just that this idea 'suggests' that the losties are the ones [subconciously] forming their own visions..through a part of their inner-self and with the aid of the island/cerberus[?] who merely acts as a 'channel' for their subconcious to become heightened and more powerful..more real..?

I agree with you that Hurley has had mental problems..but i dont necessarily think that his case was any more extreme or distinct from the other Losties visions [eg Jacks, Lockes, Boones]..the only/main difference [for me] was that Hurleys visions was a vision that he also used to have in the real world. However i dont feel that this makes him any more 'ill' or susceptable than the other losties because i believe that their visions all manifest themsleves in different ways and although they may not each have visualised a 'Dave' in the form of Hurleys 'Dave', I do feel that 'Dave' is merely a representation of the subconcious and they all have their own representations..it's just that Hurleys was in 'human form' because he has had past experience or [real-life] mental issues.

In saying that i do still feel that the island/Cerberus is causing them to have these visions but i now feel that the visions are also [alot] to do with their own subconcious and the mnaifestation of what they 'want' to see. Oh and im starting to agree with you that Boone's vision wasnt merely down to wacky paste.. ..same goes with Mike's Walt conversation..after watching 'Dave' im 'more' open to the idea that it was a vision. Im not toally convinced but im more inclined to see it that way now.

I think you might have apoint with the visions = the sickness. This has crossed my mind on a number of occassions but now it's begining to seem more and more likely. I really need to go back over what Danielle said about the sickness and her team, but i think it's very likely..