On Death Row

[Reed]

As of the last few episodes Ben has been:

• beaten up and slapped
• dragged around on a leash like a dog
• insulted
• threatened and narrowlingly escaping death
• ridiculed
• embarrassed
• tied to a tree
• denied ice-tea [and presumably food]

While in S2 less we we forget how Danielle ruthlessly and unnecessarily shot him with an arrow before he was held prisoner in a room for a week and practically beaten to within a inch of his life by Sayid - while only just escaping 2 assasination attempts by Sayid and Ana.

I am sure I could add to this list but I think this just about covers it.

So this begs the question; in spite of what Ben and the Others have put the Survivors through - does he DESERVE all of this and should he be let go now?

[master-casanova]

He doesnt deserve the brutality that he has received
Its uncalled for, and what ever happened to the saying treat others as you yourself want to be treated
x

[Reed]

Agreed. It has been brutal, but many would argue the side of the Survivors and call it justifiable revenge after all he put them through.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Yeah I agree with what's been said so far. I don't think he deserves to be beaten up and abused, I'd hope I'd be able to control myself from sinking to his level...

PLUS! Ben want's a reaction; he is trying to rile Locke and Sawyer up in particular (probably because they're the easiest to control ) So I don't think Ben actually begrudges being beaten up, as it's all part of his plan... In my opinion...

But no, I don't think he should be abused. I say taking the moral high ground would be punishment enough for Ben. I can imagine it annoying him so.

EDIT: ON second thoughts, I do believe he deserves to be punished (for the kidnapping of women and children in particular) but no-one on the Island has a right to make a decision on what that punishment should be. They're all too emotionally invested to give a fair hearing...

[b-r-a-d]

mo he dosnt deserve it, Locke does though!

[haelle03]

Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum

EDIT: ON second thoughts, I do believe he deserves to be punished (for the kidnapping of women and children in particular) but no-one on the Island has a right to make a decision on what that punishment should be. They're all too emotionally invested to give a fair hearing...

I second this. He does deserve some form of punishment, however it's not for those on the Island to give it. No one has that right.

[D-Roc]

No, he doesn't deserve what they've done to him. Not only is he a 'human being' who deserves better, but the fact that Sayid comes to be on his side also counts for something.

[Him]

Yes, he does I think.
Compared to the amount of pain caused to other people, for which he's responsible, a few beatings and being led around on a leash isn't undeserved...
I'm not including the whole purge massacre in this, as it's possible that some of that can be excused. I consider him worthy of punishment for other stuff, such as the sacrifices he's made for solving the fertility problems on the Island (deemed a novelty by Richard), and following on from that, the rather pointless terrorism of the 815 survivors.

He may have good aims (debatable) but he certainly doesn't have the best methods.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Him

Yes, he does I think.
Compared to the amount of pain caused to other people, for which he's responsible, a few beatings and being led around on a leash isn't undeserved...
I'm not including the whole purge massacre in this, as it's possible that some of that can be excused. Other stuff, such as the sacrifices he's made for solving the fertility problems on the Island, and following on from that, the rather pointless terrorism of the 815 survivors, I have considered worthy of punishing him for...

He may have good aims (debatable) but he certainly doesn't have the best methods.

Ben-bashing never gets old.
I wont even begin to understand your logic him.

[Beach Crew]

EDIT: *Disclaimer* This was meant to be seen (lol, that word) as a more general over view as people perceiving evil and the first little chunk where I suggest Ben is evil, was me trying to explain what Him had said, lol.

I can kinda see where Him's coming from. If you look on a large scale the amount of evil that Ben has done, it would seem that beating him up is a small price to pay.

However, my own ethics wouldn't allow for it. Granted, one punch, I might let it slip by, because.....which of the guys on the island hasn't been punched at some point? But some of the stuff that has happened to him, no matter how evil Ben is seen to be, I couldn't allow it.

It's not for us, or the Losties, to decide how Ben should be punished. Everyone, no matter how evil, has the right to a trial. Has the right to explain why they did what they did. It's only fair, otherwise we'd be in a world of crime upon crime, eye for an eye and so on.

And besides, a part of me says that he's not worth it. He'll get what's coming to him eventually. Karma and all that.

[D-Roc]

*Runs from Ben-bashers*
This will only end when either Ben dies or walks on water, wont it..

Sayid has vindicated him..what more proof do we need?

B, what is this "evil" that Ben has done? I mean..how can we appropriate all the things that Reed put in his first post (i.e. the horrible way in which he is being abused by the losties), to being just reward for "evil" which is purely 'speculation' in the first place.

Evil..what evil? I genuinely don't understand this, B..

Is Ben's unproven "evil" worse than Ford's proven evil in murdering Cooper without foundation..or his executing an innocent man?

Ben's "evil" is pure speculation..speculation which is eroded with each passing episode (i.e. Sayid working for him, citing some sort of justification for his previous actions).

Sometimes I'd rather they kill Ben off so that this unfair bashment can stop (I don't mean that, Benji)

[Him]

I should add that I don't think it's right for people to be dishing out their own punishment based on subjective views, so I don't agree with the survivors abusing him - but that doesn't mean I don't think he deserves it, in a Karmaic sense. Karma just happens to imposing itself on him in this way, regardless of whether the attackers aren't necessarily justified.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Him

I should add that I don't think it's right for people to be dishing out their own punishment based on subjective views, so I don't agree with the survivors abusing him - but that doesn't mean I don't think he deserves it, in a Karmaic sense. Karma just happens to imposing itself on him in this way, regardless of whether the attackers aren't necessarily justified.

But the question directly concerns whether he 'deserves this abusive treatment from the Losties'........

You can't hide behind: 'I don't think they should treat him like a dog's excrement, but Karma will crush him like an ant'

That's one in the same thing..it just appears to be a way of window dressing your argument so that you don't fall prey to moralistic judgement