What was Henry implying? - Lost Community Forums - Official Spoiler-free Lost Fansite

***D-Roc*** · 10-14-2006, 04:45 PM

When HG warned Mike that if he told anyone about what he's seen on the island, the truth about 'what he did to get his son back' will get out..

But what did he mean by this? Well i know he meant that the real world would find out about his murder of LuLu and Libby..

However..

Surely he's not suggesting that Dharma influence the media?

I suppose it's what several of us have thought in the past - that an entity on the island have fingers in many pies.

But in light of what has been presented to us (eg the others seemingly living in fear of another entity -hence the disguises), how conceivable is it that they have people on the outside, in the media, government etc

Dont get me wring, i would think this would indeed be the case with the Hanso Foundation..but the Others? Unless........they are the Hanso Foundation

Nah, i dont truely believe that either. The Others are Dharma, imo. But it does make me wonder just how much power 'Dharma' currently has on the outside..

Beach Crew · 10-14-2006, 04:58 PM

Are you suggesting that Dharma has control on and off the island?

Because if so, this idea afears me.

The idea that they could have power outside, controlling the people that get off the island. I mean...this doesn't bode well if our people get rescued. Will they ever be free?

But hmmm....

Murgatroyd · 10-14-2006, 05:02 PM

I thought he just meant that, if Michael were to somehow discover the location of the island and lead outsiders to it, the other Losties would be bound to reveal what Michael did, and thus the two murders he committed would be exposed. Not that this doesn't mean the Others have no ex-island influence though.

***D-Roc*** · 10-14-2006, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach Crew,October 14, 2006 03:58 pm

Are you suggesting that Dharma has control on and off the island?

Because if so, this idea afears me.

The idea that they could have power outside, controlling the people that get off the island. I mean...this doesn't bode well if our people get rescued. Will they ever be free?

But hmmm....

Im not really sure what i mean because what im suggesting does to some degree conflict with my overriding theory - that the Others themselves are not the topdogs on the island and that they too are under threat from persecution/attack etc.

So by suggesting that they have links/control in the real-world it really does conflict with my own belief..

I had kinda thought that the HF are the topdogs and the ones with all the off-island (and island) control..but as of yet we havent seen hide nor tail of them (or so it seems..

). So are we to believe that the others are merely on this island with no control..no way of forcing events? I mean, its my belief that the Others/Dharma had a major hand in bringing the losties to the island, but that they were ousted from this privelidged postion by the HF. So it could be that whatever links Dharma once shared with HF, still exist in the outside world? Perhaps there are those on the outside who sympathise with Dharma and still show allegience to them..thus providing them with a degree of control over real-world events? Of course all of this is based upon many assumptions.. :P

You raise a good point though. Because from what HG said it does seem as if we have an indication that the others DO 'at least' control the 'gateway' to the island..since (as you implied) he basically told Mike that he will be 'allowed' to leave..but not allowed to comeback..

How do the others have so much control over who comes and goes from the island? Surely even the others, as impressive as they are, have a governing body or some other group that exerts control over them?

Ahh, of course, there is 'HIM' isnt there. Though 'HIM' might be intangible like many of the real-world gods and idols..furthermore 'HIM' might only exist in their mindsets..their belief systems? As far as we know there is no proof of 'HIM'..but then, when did faith in an entity ever require proof for people to believe?

Except science of course..that is most tangible and is in essense base don proof. But this in itself presents a quandary, because Dharma are a science group...and yet they seemingly have faith in a God-like person

Isnt this against everything science stands for? Or are Dharma a bunch of new-age and forward thinking pseudo-scientists..come faith advocates? Yeah.."thats the spirit"..

Ok, ive gone way Off topic..but this whole thing is rather perplexing, yet most intriguing, imo.

Beach Crew · 10-14-2006, 05:21 PM

Hun, I need more coffee before I read that....

***D-Roc*** · 10-14-2006, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach Crew,October 14, 2006 04:21 pm

Hun, I need more coffee before I read that....

Haha..take you time..it will always be here and wont be deleted unlike elsewhere

Beach Crew · 10-14-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoRevo,October 14, 2006 03:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach Crew,October 14, 2006 04:21 pm

Hun, I need more coffee before I read that....

Haha..take you time..it will always be here and wont be deleted unlike elsewhere

Cheers hun....and indeed.

*Goes to make coffee*

***D-Roc*** · 10-14-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd,October 14, 2006 04:02 pm

I thought he just meant that, if Michael were to somehow discover the location of the island and lead outsiders to it, the other Losties would be bound to reveal what Michael did, and thus the two murders he committed would be exposed. Not that this doesn't mean the Others have no ex-island influence though.

Hmm, good point Murg..he probably did mean that to be honest. Perhaps it's just the elaborate way in which i interpreted it?

But something just bugs me about the way in which he said it. HG seemed more assured in the way in which he warned Mike. Almost as if he could give the order to have him crushed at any moment, no matter where in the world he was..thus illustrating the sheer influence and reach of the man (and Dharma)

***Kiowa Warrior*** · 10-14-2006, 06:34 PM

Roco you could of course be right about Dharma/HF having contacts in important positions in the outside world - I really like that theory, and do think that there are people either affliated with Dharma/HF or at least know about their activities, but are helping to keep them hidden from the rest of the world. However I can't really apply that theory to that scene with Henry, and tend to agree with what Murgatroyd has said about what would happen if Michael returned.

Yes Henry did seem very assured of himself when he told Michael that, but his whole attitude when he stepped onto the pier was that of a confident and in control leader, and along with his actions I think that mentality was displayed in his tone and choice of words to Michael.

~~**St. Anger**~~ · 10-15-2006, 03:54 AM

As for the Others being Dharma, on wikipedia, [which we would have seen in the S2 finale if we freezed frames] Zeke had a tatttoo on his chest which would answer this question. I won't say anymore in case you consider it a spoiler.

If Dharma can control peeps before they were on the island, they sure as hell can do it afterwards. But wouldn't telling the world about Mike's murders, reveal the existance of the island??

Surely it would, and this is not what the Others/Dhrama/Hanso want!

'Yeah, Mike killed 2 people on our secret island" - Hanso.

Quote:

I thought he just meant that, if Michael were to somehow discover the location of the island and lead outsiders to it, the other Losties would be bound to reveal what Michael did

But HG said he could never return,....... meaning he'll never find a way back even if he wants to. Though how do Dharma/Hanso know Mike will keeep his mouth shut? Will he end up working for them? It's not like peeps leave the island very often is it. So what happens when they do!?

Quote:

Haha..take you time..it will always be here and wont be deleted unlike elsewhere 

AMEN TO THAT!!!

***D-Roc*** · 10-15-2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiowa Warrior,October 14, 2006 05:34 pm

Roco you could of course be right about Dharma/HF having contacts in important positions in the outside world - I really like that theory, and do think that there are people either affliated with Dharma/HF or at least know about their activities, but are helping to keep them hidden from the rest of the world. However I can't really apply that theory to that scene with Henry, and tend to agree with what Murgatroyd has said about what would happen if Michael returned.

Yes Henry did seem very assured of himself when he told Michael that, but his whole attitude when he stepped onto the pier was that of a confident and in control leader, and along with his actions I think that mentality was displayed in his tone and choice of words to Michael.

Ok, so we agree that it's possible that Dharma (or Hanso.F?) still have contact/influence/power in the outside world. Thus helping to (in effect) control peoples destiny (such as our losties in bringing them to the island etc)..?

So lets look at the aspect which we disagree on

I accept that Murg's point is extremely valid and possible. However like St.Anger pointed out, Henry did imply that Mike would never be able to find the island again. Which would surely(?) mean that Henry did infact imply to Michael that if he let people know of the existance of the island etc then Henry could give the order to have 'people' (the media?) reveal what he did. Perhaps it wouldnt be revealed in the context of the island (as that would perhaps be bad for Dharma/the others)..but maybe Mike could be set-up so that people thought he killed Ana and Libby in the real world (and not on the island, thus still keeping the island a secret). So in effect, i reckon that Henry was displaying his power and influence..suggesting that he can destroy Mike and still take his son away from him (as Mike would be in prison) at any given time (should he reveal the islands secrets..)

I guess we will have to agree to disagree with this one

~~**St. Anger**~~ · 10-15-2006, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Perhaps it wouldnt be revealed in the context of the island (as that would perhaps be bad for Dharma/the others)..but maybe Mike could be set-up so that people thought he killed Ana and Libby in the real world (and not on the island, thus still keeping the island a secret).

That's a good explanation, and is possibly the only way Henry & Co. could tell the world about Mike's murders. As with Prison Break and the way the goverment set up Lincoln Borrows.

Wait a sec, why do Lincoln and Michael [Scofield (sp?)] have different surnames, they're brothers!! I've only just realised.

Anyone know??

Mantis Zero · 10-15-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoRevo,October 15, 2006 09:13 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiowa Warrior,October 14, 2006 05:34 pm

Roco you could of course be right about Dharma/HF having contacts in important positions in the outside world - I really like that theory, and do think that there are people either affliated with Dharma/HF or at least know about their activities, but are helping to keep them hidden from the rest of the world. However I can't really apply that theory to that scene with Henry, and tend to agree with what Murgatroyd has said about what would happen if Michael returned.

Yes Henry did seem very assured of himself when he told Michael that, but his whole attitude when he stepped onto the pier was that of a confident and in control leader, and along with his actions I think that mentality was displayed in his tone and choice of words to Michael.

Ok, so we agree that it's possible that Dharma (or Hanso.F?) still have contact/influence/power in the outside world. Thus helping to (in effect) control peoples destiny (such as our losties in bringing them to the island etc)..?

So lets look at the aspect which we disagree on

I accept that Murg's point is extremely valid and possible. However like St.Anger pointed out, Henry did imply that Mike would never be able to find the island again. Which would surely(?) mean that Henry did infact imply to Michael that if he let people know of the existance of the island etc then Henry could give the order to have 'people' (the media?) reveal what he did. Perhaps it wouldnt be revealed in the context of the island (as that would perhaps be bad for Dharma/the others)..but maybe Mike could be set-up so that people thought he killed Ana and Libby in the real world (and not on the island, thus still keeping the island a secret). So in effect, i reckon that Henry was displaying his power and influence..suggesting that he can destroy Mike and still take his son away from him (as Mike would be in prison) at any given time (should he reveal the islands secrets..)

I guess we will have to agree to disagree with this one

I dont think thats what was meant by it at all, after all if Michael came back with these tales of a mysterious island with a big smoke monster, world saving Dharma buttons and a tribe of "others" would anyone really take him seriously anyway? Not unless he took them to it.

So this may indicate Henry was lying about Michael not being able to return just to further convince him not to, I dont think the others have any off island influence (although Hanso / Dharma / Mr Paik / Widmore seem to).

If Michael did return and the "authorities" were informed of his murders then surely other islanders such as Sayid (assault, torture x2), Sawyer (murder, assisted suicide), Kate (attempted murder) , Charlie (murder) and Eko (murder x2, assault x loads) would also be hauled off and locked up for what theyve done there. I think Henry was just calling his bluff and Michael took his word for it, or did he?

~~**St. Anger**~~ · 10-15-2006, 05:42 PM

Michael wouldn't dare jeopardise Walt, he's got him back and that's all that matters to him now, ...........the island is history!

***D-Roc*** · 10-16-2006, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St. Anger (o'_'o),October 15, 2006 03:10 pm

Quote:

Perhaps it wouldnt be revealed in the context of the island (as that would perhaps be bad for Dharma/the others)..but maybe Mike could be set-up so that people thought he killed Ana and Libby in the real world (and not on the island, thus still keeping the island a secret).

That's a good explanation, and is possibly the only way Henry & Co. could tell the world about Mike's murders. As with Prison Break and the way the goverment set up Lincoln Borrows.

Yeah, i think that Dharma (or perhaps HF) have such a potential reach/influence.

You mentioned Governement which is interesting..i wonder..does it go that far!? I mean, we know that the US Military is involved..and the US military are governed by the US Governement

10-14-2006, 04:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
*D-Roc* Hello Again :) Island Architect Tournaments Won: 1 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Locke's Heart Fave Character: Locke Lost Item: Crucifix Posts: 17,160	What was Henry implying? When HG warned Mike that if he told anyone about what he's seen on the island, the truth about 'what he did to get his son back' will get out.. But what did he mean by this? Well i know he meant that the real world would find out about his murder of LuLu and Libby.. However.. Surely he's not suggesting that Dharma influence the media? I suppose it's what several of us have thought in the past - that an entity on the island have fingers in many pies. But in light of what has been presented to us (eg the others seemingly living in fear of another entity -hence the disguises), how conceivable is it that they have people on the outside, in the media, government etc Dont get me wring, i would think this would indeed be the case with the Hanso Foundation..but the Others? Unless........they are the Hanso Foundation Nah, i dont truely believe that either. The Others are Dharma, imo. But it does make me wonder just how much power 'Dharma' currently has on the outside.. __________________ Ben shows Jack how to Pop his Collar --- Following Ben Linus to the end of the wheel AND IN TURN, THE END OF TIME & SPACE Time is Not Linear, Hence it can be LOST

10-14-2006, 04:58 PM	#2 (permalink)
Beach Crew "Moral Police" Member Island Believer Join Date: Sep 2006 Fave Character: Sawyer Lost Item: Toy Airplane Posts: 9,272 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 2	What was Henry implying? Are you suggesting that Dharma has control on and off the island? Because if so, this idea afears me. The idea that they could have power outside, controlling the people that get off the island. I mean...this doesn't bode well if our people get rescued. Will they ever be free? But hmmm.... __________________ Thanks to JB for the Avi. and FBF for the Sig. "I think Juliet really likes Sawyer" - Elizabeth Mitchell You can beat this A.C - Stay Strong D.C - Hugs to All

10-14-2006, 05:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
Murgatroyd Light em Uup! Survivor Join Date: Aug 2006 Fave Character: Desmond Posts: 2,649	What was Henry implying? I thought he just meant that, if Michael were to somehow discover the location of the island and lead outsiders to it, the other Losties would be bound to reveal what Michael did, and thus the two murders he committed would be exposed. Not that this doesn't mean the Others have no ex-island influence though.

10-14-2006, 05:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
Beach Crew "Moral Police" Member Island Believer Join Date: Sep 2006 Fave Character: Sawyer Lost Item: Toy Airplane Posts: 9,272 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 2	What was Henry implying? Hun, I need more coffee before I read that.... __________________ Thanks to JB for the Avi. and FBF for the Sig. "I think Juliet really likes Sawyer" - Elizabeth Mitchell You can beat this A.C - Stay Strong D.C - Hugs to All

10-14-2006, 06:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
*Kiowa Warrior* Locke 1, Jack -1000000000 Island Warrior Resident Evil Apocalypse Champion!Tournaments Won: 1 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Locke's Right Hand Side Fave Character: Locke Lost Item: Hunting Knife Posts: 7,023 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 6	What was Henry implying? Roco you could of course be right about Dharma/HF having contacts in important positions in the outside world - I really like that theory, and do think that there are people either affliated with Dharma/HF or at least know about their activities, but are helping to keep them hidden from the rest of the world. However I can't really apply that theory to that scene with Henry, and tend to agree with what Murgatroyd has said about what would happen if Michael returned. Yes Henry did seem very assured of himself when he told Michael that, but his whole attitude when he stepped onto the pier was that of a confident and in control leader, and along with his actions I think that mentality was displayed in his tone and choice of words to Michael. __________________ *You can't prove it won't happen...* We got our hearts dipped In time release We got the know how And the elbow greaase

10-15-2006, 05:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
~~St. Anger~~ I Am Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,256	What was Henry implying? Michael wouldn't dare jeopardise Walt, he's got him back and that's all that matters to him now, ...........the island is history!