Ana lucia was the real target...

[Indie88]

Originally Written by Pynch:
I'm beginning to think that they have no desire at all to 'get' those four...... I think its all about Michael and Walt, and that those names were quite randomly chosen.....

This got me thinking:

You remember when Ms. Klugh said:

"It doesn't matter, they'll be so angry, they'll believe anything" ?

That implied to me that she knew what michael would have to do to get michael back.

Think about it, it only makes sense if she already knew!

I think that Michael's "Mission" was not to get Jack et al, or even henry. I think it was to shoot Ana Lucia. And that was it. The list is simply a means to an end, and michael is simply the tool!

By the way, if you control fate, doesn't that mean you can therefore see the future?

[Hooting Heck]

"That's crazy!"

"Yeah... crazy like a fox!"

"But is it crazy enough to work?"

[Indie88]

Originally Posted by Hooting Heck,September 20, 2006 10:23 pm

"That's crazy!"

"Yeah... crazy like a fox!"

"But is it crazy enough to work?"

What's that from? I remember it from a film i'm sure....

What are you actual thoughts HH?

EDIT: And what do you think of my new Avatar?

[Him]

Well if she's meant to be a psychic then that sort of provides a decent explanation.

[Hooting Heck]

Originally Posted by Indie88,September 20, 2006 10:28 pm

What are you actual thoughts HH?

About Miss Klugh - I think the Others know the Losties cannot agree on anything and get mad about everything that happens.

About controlling fate - I think you nicked that idea from Rickalpha on the Channel 4 forum! Got a lot of credibility, though. I think the Others are, generally, one or two steps ahead of the Losties up to a point (e.g. until the Losties found the fake beards and costumes), which helps them anticipate and manipulate the Losties behaviour.

E.G. the apparent state of the fishing village is contradicted by the syringe and plastic bag used by Pickett to take a blood sample from Michael. Why would they fake it (confirmed by Walt) unless it was something like a Long Con?

Avatar: What's in the background? Stars, fireflies, ball lightning or burning pockets of marsh gas?

[Indie88]

I didn't steal anything, it was just a musing

And it's stars.

It was a picture tube thing in PaintShopPro lol.

I was thinking that....They do look pretty advanced. Although, as to the syringe and plastic, they were until recently, known to be in the medical hatch full of supplies....

There are so many things left uncovered! GRRR! why did they leave? Where be Desy-boy? Where be Rouseau (sp)?!

Hmmm - I just read over on C4 forum That we won't get Lost S3 til after the new year

[St. Anger]

Well if she's meant to be a psychic then that sort of provides a decent explanation.

Most psychics wear weird head things like Mrs Klu..hmmmmm.

Surely if it was the plan, they wudda just told Mike to kill her.

Wonder why the Losties haven't moved into the medical hatch? I guess they are happy with tents.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Indie88,September 20, 2006 11:11 pm

This got me thinking:

You remember when Ms. Klugh said:

"It doesn't matter, they'll be so angry, they'll believe anything" ?

That implied to me that she knew what michael would have to do to get michael back.

Think about it, it only makes sense if she already knew!

I think that Michael's "Mission" was not to get Jack et al, or even henry. I think it was to shoot Ana Lucia. And that was it. The list is simply a means to an end, and michael is simply the tool!

By the way, if you control fate, doesn't that mean you can therefore see the future?

But if the others/Mrs K could see into the future and control fate then what are they doing living in tents and ramshackle huts? Why are they themselves seemingly under threat from external forces? and why are they so fallable? Weve seen the panic that Zeke went into when Pickett told him that Kates pals were half a click away, weve seen people like Henry get caught and weve seen respected others like Goodwin and Ethan get killed at the hand sof Losties. If they could do all this future seeing and fate controlling then why has all this happened..why are they in such a delicate situation themselves..?

[Murgatroyd]

They could live in the tent village simply because the island isn't supposed to become overdeveloped and they can't all fit in the hatch (or they don't all want to live away from the daylight) - much like our own group. I'd be interested to know what use the disguises and the like were before the Losties crashed - they seem solely designed for tricking Jack and co.

What precisely did Walt mean by 'they're pretending?' They're not who they say they are? Well, who did they say they were to Michael? Is Walt just talking about the disguises? Is he telling Michael not to go ahead with the hideous mission because they don't really have any use for those four people?

And I do think Ms Klugh knew what was going to happen, because I don't reckon the 'angry' comment makes much sense otherwise... but I think there's a fair chance she got that info from Walt.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by KoRevo,September 21, 2006 09:49 am

But if the others/Mrs K could see into the future and control fate then what are they doing living in tents and ramshackle huts? Why are they themselves seemingly under threat from external forces? and why are they so fallable? Weve seen the panic that Zeke went into when Pickett told him that Kates pals were half a click away, weve seen people like Henry get caught and weve seen respected others like Goodwin and Ethan get killed at the hand sof Losties. If they could do all this future seeing and fate controlling then why has all this happened..why are they in such a delicate situation themselves..?

This is where my theory kicks in. And why children are important.

They didn't have a 'child prodigy' when Ethan or Goodwin were killed. I always thought that both Goodwin and Ethan seemed to be 'flying solo'. Ethan panicked when he nabbed Claire, and Goodwin was willing to stick around even when he was out numbered - [which recent evidence points to the fact he thought HE (NOT his superiors) could 'change Ana'].

I don't think 'they' or anyone can change/control fate. But they can certainly use it to their advantage.

Like the Mike situation. And the Shannon/Ana situation.

[Indie88]

But if the others/Mrs K could see into the future and control fate then what are they doing living in tents and ramshackle huts? Why are they themselves seemingly under threat from external forces? and why are they so fallable? Weve seen the panic that Zeke went into when Pickett told him that Kates pals were half a click away, weve seen people like Henry get caught and weve seen respected others like Goodwin and Ethan get killed at the hands of Losties. If they could do all this future seeing and fate controlling then why has all this happened..why are they in such a delicate situation themselves..?

This is without a doubt, the toughest post in this thread to anwer, but i'm going to give it a go.

Perhaps i got my idea the wrong way around? Myabe Ms. Klugh cannot 'control' fate, but surely if she can see the future, she herself plays a part in it.

You use a word very cleverly in that sentence, whether you know it or not. That word, is seemingly. If they knew Michael would be going on a 'mission' for them, why let him see the camp at all? (And more importantly, why let him see the one major landmark, as described by Walt - The stone with the hole in it?). Even if they didn't know he would be going on a mission;

"Something has happened while you have been here" etc

Then why would they send him on a mission, knowing he could tell the losties exactly where this 'rag-tag' bunch of settlers are?

To michael, The camp is 'seemingly' weak, seemingly undefended.

Sayid: "No, we must let him continue to think he is in control"
Jack: "But why would we want that?"
Sayid: "To create an advantage"

Either way, for the moment, Michael must believe that he is in a pretty strong position. He brings the 4, they give him his boy. If not, 5 of them with guns, versus 2 of them with guns. Seems a pretty easy fight.

Ever heard of the word 'ambush'? I know you've all thought it yourself...The advert didn't help either!

S: 'Ambush' (n) ambush, ambuscade, lying in wait, trap:
A method of hunting that involves hiding and waiting for prey to come to the hunter

You think for a second they would let michael see their full force? Did you see any weak old men? Or just young, healthy men?

Okay - Either way, with or without Ms Klugh being a clairvoyant, there's a lot of strategy here. But, the people that have died, made seemingly rash decisions, have not (as far as we know) been near the woman. (Who i think looks very masculine from certain angles lol.)

I've always thought that Zeke and his crew looked like some sort of squad, or patrol, our together.

Everytime you've seen panic on Zeke's face, has it been the panic of a cool, collected leader of men, or the panic of a 2nd-in-command without his leader?

(I've tried damn hard to answer that post, KoR, and it better show! lol.)

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd,September 21, 2006 10:06 am

What precisely did Walt mean by 'they're pretending?' They're not who they say they are? Well, who did they say they were to Michael? Is Walt just talking about the disguises? Is he telling Michael not to go ahead with the hideous mission because they don't really have any use for those four people?

And I do think Ms Klugh knew what was going to happen, because I don't reckon the 'angry' comment makes much sense otherwise... but I think there's a fair chance she got that info from Walt.

Yes, if we knew who they said they were to Walt then that would make things alot clearer. Also, how does Walt know theyre pretending? Of course he may have seen a contradcition in what the told him and what he's seen them do/say..

..hmm, now heres a thought lets say we go along with the idea that Mrs K can see into the future [i still dont buy this btw]..then how comes she didnt know that Walt was gonna splurt out "They take me to this room and make me do tests", now she clearly didnt want Walt to reveal this to Mike, thats why she said "Were not gonna talk about that". Also, if she could see into the future then how comes she didnt foresee Walt warning Mike "Theyre not who they say they are.."

As for the part when Mrs K says "They'll be angry enough to do whatever you say", well i understand where your comming from..in some respects that whole interchange makes little sense unless she 'knew' that Mike would murder Ana-Lu and Libby. However, if we forget all that we know..forget that Mike executed his people, then im sure we wouldnt find that quote too baffling..would we? I mean we would probably assume that she was referring to the fact that they still have Walt or the fact that Sawyer is lusting for a piece of revenge on Zeke and Mr gunslinger, who shot him in the shoulder and presumably grazed his ear in THP..

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by E PLURIBUS UNUM,September 21, 2006 11:22 am

This is where my theory kicks in. And why children are important.

They didn't have a 'child prodigy' when Ethan or Goodwin were killed. I always thought that both Goodwin and Ethan seemed to be 'flying solo'. Ethan panicked when he nabbed Claire, and Goodwin was willing to stick around even when he was out numbered - [which recent evidence points to the fact he thought HE (NOT his superiors) could 'change Ana'].

I don't think 'they' or anyone can change/control fate. But they can certainly use it to their advantage.

Like the Mike situation. And the Shannon/Ana situation.

So what are you saying? ..that because they now have Walt they can see future events? ..hmm..not sure..i mean even the mighty Cerberus cant see into the future.. ..only the past [or so weve seen]

Im not saying your theory is impossible..it could work..afterall Walt seemed to know that the Swan shouldnt have been opened [before the Pearl?] - "Dont open it Mr Locke..dont open that thing!!" [S1 episode, cant remember which]. But if they could use Walt to see into the future then wouldnt they be making life easier for themselves..for example wouldnt they already have everything they want how they want it? If i could see into the future i would be a billionaire within a day..[for example]

[E Pluribus Unum]

"mighty Cerberus " - Mighty shmighty It's a lot of fancy lights, smoke and mirros if you ask me...

Hey I wonder if Walt [eventually] meant 'the pearl' Afterall it was 'the pearl' that was bad for Locke and not the 'Swan' - well the Pearl has 'opened' his eyes to it, presuming the pearl itself isn't a pack of lies also..

"for example wouldnt they already have everything they want how they want it? If i could see into the future i would be a billionaire within a day..[for example] "

They might not be able to control what parts of 'destiny' they can see. In both examples [Ana shooting Shannon/Mike Shooting Ana] - Mike was there. Perhaps there is a link between Walt and Michael - "Are you Walts biological father" - "Have you seen him places he shouldn't have been" - perhaps you have to have some kind of link with Walt for him to 'work' through you. Walt had an emotional link with Shannon through Vincent - and then of course, just after Shannon and Sayid have a very emotion 'connection' Sayid [through Shannon?] see's Walt...

I dunno, it could be any number of things. Perhaps they can only use Walt, to see Walts eventual destiny - all the situations and interactions that lead upto Walts eventually destiny..

And remember 'They're pretending' - they might be better off than we presume