Ana outranks Locke?

[Mantis Zero]

Ok so suddenly Ana Lucia has become Henry's prison warden? Firstly she orders Sayid out of the room and to not let him back in ever (though to be fair he was going to kill Henry), then she takes personal possesion of the gun (I can see this ending in tears), then she denies Locke access to see Henry?

Ana Lucia's horrific personality seems to be shining through again, surprisingly Jack follows her orders and in turn is completely nasty to Locke not even telling him what happened. She also pulls rank over Locke over access to their prisoner, what gives her the right to do this? A gun? She wouldnt even know of Henry's existance if Locke didnt bring her into the loop and she repays him by taking the Jack attitude towards him?

Her gun obsession is clearly a problem, they have held Henry for some time and its quite clear he is too much of a weakling to do any damage to anybody so is armed supervision really required? Or is she just keeping the gun in her hand so she can shoot anybody who comes near her prisoner?

[D-Roc]

I disagree with your stance here. I thik Ana has proven herself to be the most adept person to 'manage' Henry. She was the one the get the map from him and she was the one who prevented Sayid from doing a Charlie and killing their only source of information. She also has experience with guns and is a cop..she has proven that she has learned from her past mistakes and out of that lot - Sayid, Jack [and even] Locke, she is the only one i would want to see governing Henry right now. This is because of the above reasons and also because Sayid is too emotionally involved, with him it's personal and he's not thinking clealrly. Jack just cant make up his mind..one minute he wants to help the man and cook him Sunday breakfast and the next minute he's pinning the poor guy up against the wall and sadistically toying with his wound. As for Locke..well Locke's injured and he is in no fit state [of mind of body im sad to report] to be monitoring Henry right now. Henry may look weak but Locke's got a broken leg [well..as good as].Tha leaves Ana [as i wont waste time considering Charlie or Kate ]..who in my book is the right person to be taking charge of this situation.

It's funny you should say that Ana has a gun obsession because in my view both Sayid and Jack seemed to be more obsessed with guns than she is. For me Ana is the solution..not the problem.

[Kiowa Warrior]

This is tricky...on the one hand I approve of AL's actions regarding Henry, because she treated him fairly and spoke to him as a normal person would. She also prevented the ever increasingly unstable Sayid from executing him, and was also prepared to thoroughly search the area where he said his balloon was. I would rather AL guard Henry than Sayid or Jack by a long shot.

However I don't like her behaviour and attitude when she's sitting outside the armoury guarding Henry. I agree with Mantis' comment about AL lording it over Locke with regard to allowing access to Henry, especially after Locke informed her about him in the first place. Fair enough AL should bar Sayid from visiting Henry, but I don't understand why she's dictating to Locke when and for how long he can see him. Perhaps she considers herself the most impartial one out of Locke, Jack and Sayid when it comes to Henry and so has elevated herself to a superior postion. I hate Jack being so dismissive of Locke, and can't stand AL doing the same. Don't let all your good work be for nothing AL - don't turn into Jack!

I don't think armed supervision is necessary either - one more punch and Henry will probably be knocked out. I like to think AL is wielding a gun to deter Sayid from going back for more, but I can't help but feel it's more due to the fact that not only does she want to be in control of the Henry situation, but to be seen as being in control of it.

[Mantis Zero]

Then how does that deny Locke the right to talk to Henry? She flatly told him "I dont think thats on the program", plus Henry is tied up and cant even move let alone attack anyone.

Sayid is not obsessed with guns, hes obsessed with revenge. He only had the gun because Charlie gave it to him, he never asked for it and he certainly wasnt staring at it longingly while it resided in Charlie's pants. Ana constantly brings up guns ("We should go check it out with guns", "Maybe you should give me the gun", "Did you get the guns?" "What the combination lock for the guns?&quot and since she took this one from Sayid she hasnt put it down, its like its welded into her hand.

Also Jack isnt obsessed with guns, he is obsessed with being in control and solving problems. The guns are just one of the ways he tried to do this, he clearly isnt that obsessed with them since he prioritized the medicine over them.

Nearly every time we see Ana with a gun she's either threatening someone (Libby, Bernard, Sawyer, Jin, Michael, Eko), firing it at someone for no justifiable reason (Michael) or killing someone (Shannon, Jason). Thats not a very good solution IMO.

[*SP*]

It seems to me Ana-Lucia is one of the the only characters managing to shake off the shackles of the past. The character regression of so many of the rest of them borders almost on the ridiculous. The main reason that people seem to think she's 'obsessed' with guns is because of her actions in shooting Jason (which is something only we know anyway!), which although I'm not justifying, I can appreciate her reasons for doing so. And in shooting Shannon, I'd like to think that most people could see why that happened, given ALs sheer (very valid) terror regarding the others. She has, in my opinion, reflected and learned from her past and endeavors to be a 'better' person. I think that Jack and Sayid both appear more gun obsessed than AL!

I know this thread is about whether she should outrank Locke. Generally I'd say no. But Ana has had the most success in dealing with Henry. She is also the calmest at the moment. Obviously it will be emotional for her but she is acting the most rational out of all of them. I think Ana has the best chance of being able to have a conversation with him at the moment rather than, Locke, Jack and Sayid put together. Her experience as a cop probably gives her a better insight as to the best approach in getting someone to talk and letting a stream of random people in to see Henry doesn't seem logical even to a layman like me!

[kirsty290182]

Originally Posted by KoRevo,Aug 23 2006, 12:06 PM

I disagree with your stance here. I thik Ana has proven herself to be the most adept person to 'manage' Henry. She was the one the get the map from him and she was the one who prevented Sayid from doing a Charlie and killing their only source of information. She also has experience with guns and is a cop..she has proven that she has learned from her past mistakes and out of that lot - Sayid, Jack [and even] Locke, she is the only one i would want to see governing Henry right now. This is because of the above reasons and also because Sayid is too emotionally involved, with him it's personal and he's not thinking clealrly. Jack just cant make up his mind..one minute he wants to help the man and cook him Sunday breakfast and the next minute he's pinning the poor guy up against the wall and sadistically toying with his wound. As for Locke..well Locke's injured and he is in no fit state [of mind of body im sad to report] to be monitoring Henry right now. Henry may look weak but Locke's got a broken leg [well..as good as].Tha leaves Ana [as i wont waste time considering Charlie or Kate ]..who in my book is the right person to be taking charge of this situation.

It's funny you should say that Ana has a gun obsession because in my view both Sayid and Jack seemed to be more obsessed with guns than she is. For me Ana is the solution..not the problem.

i agree with you on this one. Fair enough Ana-Lucia shot (and killed) Shannon, but it was a accident, get over it people! Locke is totally not the right person to be looking after "Henry", he plays him, and he sort of controls his actions just by the way he winds him up like making snide comments about how he takes orders from jack. I vote for Ana!

[Mantis Zero]

Originally Posted by *SP*,Aug 23 2006, 15:32 PM

The main reason that people seem to think she's 'obsessed' with guns is because of her actions in shooting Jason (which is something only we know anyway!), which although I'm not justifying, I can appreciate her reasons for doing so. And in shooting Shannon, I'd like to think that most people could see why that happened, given ALs sheer (very valid) terror regarding the others. She has, in my opinion, reflected and learned from her past and endeavors to be a 'better' person. I think that Jack and Sayid both appear more gun obsessed than AL!

I'm not at all basing this on her murdering Jason, Ana is constantly talking about guns. She's always bringing them up in conversation when theres no need to and shes not holed up in the hatch with the only gun they have holding onto it like its her best friend. I've yet to see Sayid ask anyone for a gun, he has only ever been given them, and Jack wanted the meds not the guns. If that was Ana it would have been the guns and nothing but the guns.

She's not exhibiting any signs of treating people better as evidenced with her attitude towards Locke, it's just finally sunk in with her that shooting first and asking questions later isnt a good thing.

I didnt say I would prefer Jack or Sayid to watch over Henry either, but denying Locke access to speak with him is not Ana's call. She seems to be forcing her way into authority again the same way she did with the tailies (its that "I've got the gun so do as I say mentality" again), which to me shows she has not learned that much for the past after all.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Mantis Zero,Aug 23 2006, 13:35 PM

Then how does that deny Locke the right to talk to Henry? She flatly told him "I dont think thats on the program", plus Henry is tied up and cant even move let alone attack anyone.

Sayid is not obsessed with guns, hes obsessed with revenge. He only had the gun because Charlie gave it to him, he never asked for it and he certainly wasnt staring at it longingly while it resided in Charlie's pants. Ana constantly brings up guns ("We should go check it out with guns", "Maybe you should give me the gun", "Did you get the guns?" "What the combination lock for the guns?&quot and since she took this one from Sayid she hasnt put it down, its like its welded into her hand.

Also Jack isnt obsessed with guns, he is obsessed with being in control and solving problems. The guns are just one of the ways he tried to do this, he clearly isnt that obsessed with them since he prioritized the medicine over them.

Nearly every time we see Ana with a gun she's either threatening someone (Libby, Bernard, Sawyer, Jin, Michael, Eko), firing it at someone for no justifiable reason (Michael) or killing someone (Shannon, Jason). Thats not a very good solution IMO.

Maybe Ana was a bit out of order to deny Locke access to Henry..but look at it from her point of view, locke's no spring chicken and he's got a busted leg..who knows what Dharma-kung fu moves Henry's got tucked up his sleeve? She just didnt want to take that risk. Just like with Bernard and the rest of the tailies in TO48D, she is thinking of her people. Unlike Sayid who is thinking of himself. Though i wont be too harsh on Sayid since he's grieving right now.

Well obession with revenge must surely mean that he also has obsession with his medium for revenge?...which is guns. Also, Sayid may not have asked for the gun..but that was only because he wasnt aware that his new buddy, Charlie, had one on him..and whatsmore he didnt 'have' to take the gun..he couldve allowed Ana to have it. Once again Sayid 'chose' to hold onto something he knows has caused him problems in the past. With his mindset at present he should be responsible enough to say "no..it's not wise for me to be holding this..here Ana, you look after it." ..Ana isnt obsessed with guns..she keeps looking at it and making references to the guns because she feels like she has to be responsble for everyone..she doesnt want anyone to get hurt..whilst at the same time she is tormented by the memory of what she did. I certainly dont think he looking at the guns is anything to do with lust or the need to be around guns..it's more to do with the heartache and pain that 7 bullets have caused her..yet she's still strong enough to take on the responsibility and ensure that no-one gets hurt. in effect she's making up for her own past mistakes whilst trying to ensure that Sayid doesnt do what she did. I think there's a great little story/message in that. She's almost like his guardian..protecting him from the gates of hell.

I disagree somewhat about Jack not being obsessed with guns! If wearing a gun case key around your neck as if it is a religious symbol or crucifix isnt a sign of someone being obsessed with guns then what is!? Imo Jack has found a new faith..and that faith is 'guns and bullets'. Also i think it was establised/alluded to in this latest eppy that Jack went off the rails at one point..'Phuket'..now what was he doing there i wonder? ..and as for the tattoos..hmm ..also he may have prioritised the medicine over the guns on this occassion but there have been times when all he cared about was the guns [eg, when he threatened to withold medicine from Sawyer unless he gave him the *guess what* 'guns'.. ]. I agree with you that he needs to be in control and perhaps having the guns is how he feels in comfortable etc but ultimately i stilll feel as if he is obsessed with them - "2 guns thats all i need..2 guns!!!"..."You know how to handle this?" [Mike says something like, "I guess so"]..and Jack gives him a gun ..he's gun-mad is our Jack!

And as for Ana threatening the taililes..i do think that they didnt understand the seriousness of Sayids vengence..they shouldve done what she said..and anyway, thats in her past now..she's making up for her mistakes. Unlike Jack and Sayid who keep on repeating theirs..

[Mantis Zero]

Originally Posted by KoRevo,Aug 24 2006, 12:55 PM

Maybe Ana was a bit out of order to deny Locke access to Henry..but look at it from her point of view, locke's no spring chicken and he's got a busted leg..who knows what Dharma-kung fu moves Henry's got tucked up his sleeve? She just didnt want to take that risk. Just like with Bernard and the rest of the tailies in TO48D, she is thinking of her people. Unlike Sayid who is thinking of himself. Though i wont be too harsh on Sayid since he's grieving right now.

Well obession with revenge must surely mean that he also has obsession with his medium for revenge?...which is guns. Also, Sayid may not have asked for the gun..but that was only because he wasnt aware that his new buddy, Charlie, had one on him..and whatsmore he didnt 'have' to take the gun..he couldve allowed Ana to have it. Once again Sayid 'chose' to hold onto something he knows has caused him problems in the past. With his mindset at present he should be responsible enough to say "no..it's not wise for me to be holding this..here Ana, you look after it." ..Ana isnt obsessed with guns..she keeps looking at it and making references to the guns because she feels like she has to be responsble for everyone..she doesnt want anyone to get hurt..whilst at the same time she is tormented by the memory of what she did. I certainly dont think he looking at the guns is anything to do with lust or the need to be around guns..it's more to do with the heartache and pain that 7 bullets have caused her..yet she's still strong enough to take on the responsibility and ensure that no-one gets hurt. in effect she's making up for her own past mistakes whilst trying to ensure that Sayid doesnt do what she did. I think there's a great little story/message in that. She's almost like his guardian..protecting him from the gates of hell.

I disagree somewhat about Jack not being obsessed with guns! If wearing a gun case key around your neck as if it is a religious symbol or crucifix isnt a sign of someone being obsessed with guns then what is!? Imo Jack has found a new faith..and that faith is 'guns and bullets'. Also i think it was establised/alluded to in this latest eppy that Jack went off the rails at one point..'Phuket'..now what was he doing there i wonder? ..and as for the tattoos..hmm ..also he may have prioritised the medicine over the guns on this occassion but there have been times when all he cared about was the guns [eg, when he threatened to withold medicine from Sawyer unless he gave him the *guess what* 'guns'.. ]. I agree with you that he needs to be in control and perhaps having the guns is how he feels in comfortable etc but ultimately i stilll feel as if he is obsessed with them - "2 guns thats all i need..2 guns!!!"..."You know how to handle this?" [Mike says something like, "I guess so"]..and Jack gives him a gun ..he's gun-mad is our Jack!

And as for Ana threatening the taililes..i do think that they didnt understand the seriousness of Sayids vengence..they shouldve done what she said..and anyway, thats in her past now..she's making up for her mistakes. Unlike Jack and Sayid who keep on repeating theirs..

I guess Michael deserved to be shot at for not wanting to tie up his unconcious friend whos girlfriend had just been killed in front of him then.

As for Jack if he was obsessed with guns he would have taken them back instead of the meds. If that suitcase was full of anything he would have gotten it off Sawyer just to impress Katie, there were guns in there, it could have been haribo for all Jack cared. He kept the key because he wanted to be in charge of the guns so he could dish them out and he obviously doesnt trust anyone else on the entire island to do anything he sees as important (letting Hurley, a man with clear eating problems, distribute the food for example).

I think you just said yourself Sayid isnt obsessed with guns, a bit of bamboo would suffice for him. He took the gun off Charlie because he doesnt trust Ana Lucia with it, and lets face it he has good reason to.

Henry is tied up to a bed, badly beaten and with one arm rendered useless via an arrow. He is no threat, its not like Locke's going to get close enough to him so Henry can give him a love bite is it? The armed supervision is not required, she could have put the gun away put she has it constantly on show.

If what you say about Ana is that she looks longingly at guns to remind herself she was shot was true then I doubt she would want to be anywhere near guns rather than go on about them constantly and pine for them. I dont see how the gun will deter Sayid either, unless she plans on shooting him on sight.

[hundredand8]

When Ana prevents Sayid from shooting Henry, Jack was with Locke at this bedside, and then he runs off to see what happened. And when Locke asks what is happening, he said something like "I've got it covered".

My first reaction was "no you haven't, Ana has" but maybe there is truth in that after all. Maybe he appointed Ana to her position as prison guard. To make up for the fact that he kept Henry secret from her to start with.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Mantis Zero,Aug 24 2006, 14:40 PM

I guess Michael deserved to be shot at for not wanting to tie up his unconcious friend whos girlfriend had just been killed in front of him then.

As for Jack if he was obsessed with guns he would have taken them back instead of the meds. If that suitcase was full of anything he would have gotten it off Sawyer just to impress Katie, there were guns in there, it could have been haribo for all Jack cared. He kept the key because he wanted to be in charge of the guns so he could dish them out and he obviously doesnt trust anyone else on the entire island to do anything he sees as important (letting Hurley, a man with clear eating problems, distribute the food for example).

I think you just said yourself Sayid isnt obsessed with guns, a bit of bamboo would suffice for him. He took the gun off Charlie because he doesnt trust Ana Lucia with it, and lets face it he has good reason to.

Henry is tied up to a bed, badly beaten and with one arm rendered useless via an arrow. He is no threat, its not like Locke's going to get close enough to him so Henry can give him a love bite is it? The armed supervision is not required, she could have put the gun away put she has it constantly on show.

If what you say about Ana is that she looks longingly at guns to remind herself she was shot was true then I doubt she would want to be anywhere near guns rather than go on about them constantly and pine for them. I dont see how the gun will deter Sayid either, unless she plans on shooting him on sight.

Michael didnt deserve to be shot at when attmepting to help Sayid but remember Sayid had just tried to kill Eko by attempting to shoot him in the head..and he wouldve done had Ana not whacked him over the head. So Ana was obviously on edge..not only were all her 'Jason' demons flooding back but she had people like Bernie and Libby being difficult and not understanding the situation at hand. Although i admire Mike, he perhaps wouldve done the same thing. ..didnt he later go on to hold Locke and Jack at gunpoint??

Ok, i accpet that Jack wouldve got the case back [from Sawyer] regardless of what was inside, as he wanted to impress Kate..youre right about that..but dont you think there was a purposeful and symbolic reference to the fact that the creators made Jack wear the gun case key around his neck for about 25 episodes? I mean surely there is some reference to the suggestion that Jack has turned into a 'man of war' and that this key wearing holds some similarity to the way in which some Chrsitians wear their symbol of faith..the cross around their neck? Personally i think that this is the case because he didnt have to wear it around his neck..he couldve kept it in his sock for example..or in his pocket where he's probably still got those black and white stones from S1E6 .. ..i accept that he may not be 'obessed' with guns but im positive that he has a certain 'lust' for them

Youre right, Sayid doesnt trust Ana with the gun and i suppose he has got good reason not to trust her because the bullet that killed Shannon came from her gun..but i have to also question why Sayid assumes that he can trust himself since he has clearly lost all sense of morality.

Personally i think that Ana's armed supervision is worthwhile because as long as she doesnt use it irresponsibly [which she hasnt] then it's worth letting Henry know that he shouldnt try anything. It's not like she's pressing it to his temple every minute and threatening to blow his block off .she's merely acting as a visible deterrant..the kind of thing cops do.

I can understand why you would view Ana's staring at her gun as somewhat contradictory considering she is still grieving etc..but people react differently to situations..perhaps she feels 'comfort' in knowing that if required she will be able to protect herself and her people? Perhaps she feels solace in knowing that she has an element of control? ..or perhaps this is her way of torturing herself..a constant, self perpetuating reminder of what she has done..a tool for making sure that she doesnt use a gun irresponsibly ever again?

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by hundredand8,Aug 25 2006, 18:20 PM

When Ana prevents Sayid from shooting Henry, Jack was with Locke at this bedside, and then he runs off to see what happened. And when Locke asks what is happening, he said something like "I've got it covered".

My first reaction was "no you haven't, Ana has" but maybe there is truth in that after all. Maybe he appointed Ana to her position as prison guard. To make up for the fact that he kept Henry secret from her to start with.

Hmm, maybe but personally i cant see Jack doing that..he still likes to be the one in control..i just think that Ana's ascent to 'prison warden' was the natural thing to happen after Locke brought her into the loop and she successfully got "HG" to draw the map...after that i dont think anyone dare challenge her position.