The World From Jack's Point of View

[D-Roc]

Jack is a man who has trouble understanding the concept of miracles. No, scrap that..he understands them alright (See Sarah being able to wriggle her lil' toes again after being paralysed)..he has trouble 'accepting' the concept of miracles.

Let's take a moment to view the world through the eyes of the good doctor and see if he's actually got a point.

Locke to Jack: "This isn't an ISLAND...it's a place where miracles happen"

Hold on hold on. Press rewind. A couple of seasons ago Locke said:

"The ISLAND brought us here".

The ISLAND, huh. So that's ISLAND..as in ISLAND? Cool, got it.

So Jack see's Locke's 'fanatism' (not my words..Locke's isn't opposed to opposing views, but let's roll with the word fanatism for now) grow..the thing that brought them here goes from being an "island" to a "place where mircales happen".

Now imagine you were Jack (horrible and tormenting thought I know and profusely apologise)..and your antagonist tells you this:

"This piece of glass brought us here"

Then 2 seasons later you witness the same persons fanatism grow to the point of them telling you:

"This is not just a piece of glass..it's a place where mircales happen!"

Sound kinda crazy, right?

A piece of glass..how on earth can that be a place where mircales happen..furthermore, i'm JACK, i don't believe in miracles anymore..not since Sarah broke my heart..boo-hoo!

So i guess, Jack would have two options..to look closely at the piece of glass and realise that when he LOOKS at it..when he truely looks at it, he can see HIS OWN REFLECTION through this LOOKING GLASS.

OR..he can cut himself with it, and bleed out just like his appendix wound.

Jack would much rather cut himself..because it's far more tangible..he can feel pain, but he's not feeling faith much. Faith sucks..well it would if it was tangible.

So yeah, of course Locke's crazy..Locke's crazy for thinking that you would grasp where he's coming from, Jack. Locke's crazy for bringing the horse to intangible water.

But is Locke crazy for calling the island a place where mircales happen? Hell no..he could have said much more crazy stuff, like "it's not an island..it's freakin person"..or "Island? Pfft..it's HEAVEN!"

But if there's actually nothing nice back home, then that crazy talk begins to make alot of sense don't it Jack.

..Still bleeding, I see.

"Let it go Jack"

[monster-eats-pilot]

Wait what does fanatism mean?
I'm too lazy to find out for myself

[Bass-mastaa]

I'm slightly confused on the meaning of the glass ?

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by monster-eats-pilot

Wait what does fanatism mean?
I'm too lazy to find out for myself

"excessive intolerance of opposing views"

[monster-eats-pilot]

It's been 10 days since my English exam...I've pushed it out my brain.

So it means you don't agree with and respect other's views? Gotcha

But anyway back to the point...I'm kinda confused what your point is?

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Bass-mastaa

I'm slightly confused on the meaning of the glass ?

I'm basically trying to relate to Jack's viewpoint by using something so unlikely to be 'magical', if you will..something as seemingly ordinary as glass.

This is because Jack wont allow himself to buy the idea that an 'island' can be a place where miracles happen. He think it's silly that an island can have such a standing in the world, as Locke suggests.

Likewise..it seems ridiculous to think that a piece of glass could be so miraculous doesn't it? So this is basically the dilemna Jack is fighting against..he's struggling to rid himself of his commonly held beliefs and accept that there could lie possibilities outside of the sphere of his own knowledge.

I can actually see where Jack is coming from..afterall, it is an island..just like a piece of glass is a piece of glass. Except..Jack has experienced the wonders of the island..he knows what the island can do, he knows that the island is special. So he's fighting against what he knows to be true and denying it.

How many of us have fought against seeming 'miracles' in favour of our commonly held beliefs? We all find comfort in things which are familiar..safer to us. Right now I imagine that the island scares Jack because it's challenging the very foundations of the man.

There is no bedrock in science because it's laws can be challenged. Faith, on the otherhand is a far less closed book.

(imho)

[Kiowa Warrior]

I think that if Locke had said to Jack earlier on 'this place is more than just an Island in the physical sense that brought us here' Jack would have threatened to literally smack some sense into him! Maybe back then Locke did think - he did actually know - that it wasn't just an Island in the standard sense of the word, but he played it safe by only letting Jack know some of his thoughts...he wasn't sure if Jack would receive the knowledge that it was more than an Island well. And he was right to hold back!

Or maybe Locke really did consider it more of a physical Island back then, but his beliefs and outlook and perceptions have evolved and matured, whereas Jack is stubbornly refusing to move on or acknowledge anything beyond his own comfort zone.

[monster-eats-pilot]

So are you saying Jack is being stubborn because he refuses to accept the fact that he's wrong and that he's holding onto his opinions which have been proved are wrong?

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by monster-eats-pilot

It's been 10 days since my English exam...I've pushed it out my brain.

So it means you don't agree with and respect other's views? Gotcha

Good luck with your results, i'm sure you'll do fine

Yes, it means that you only see one side of the argument. Which doesn't actually describe Locke's stance, but the word seems to fit in with how I perceive Jack's view of him. Locke is 'fanatical' about the island..he's mad about it, kinda thing.

But anyway back to the point...I'm kinda confused what your point is?

Just my musings..
Basically, instead of hanging Jack without trial, i'm trying to establish whether his view has any standing in reality - whether he is infact the one who's "crazy" for denying the 'specialness' of the island (even once he saw it being moved)..or whether Jack has a point, and Locke is the mad one.

By using the 'glass' analogy, i am attempting to see whether or not I can understand why Jack has such a hard time believing in the island. After all, if someone told me that a piece of glass was "special" I'd suspect they were taking substances. That is, until I had experienced the mircales of the glass myself. Which Jack has. Hence Jack is in serious serious denial

[monster-eats-pilot]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

Good luck with your results, i'm sure you'll do fine

Yes, it means that you only see one side of the argument. Which doesn't actually describe Locke's stance, but the word seems to fit in with how I perceive Jack's view of him. Locke is 'fanatical' about the island..he's mad about it, kinda thing.

Ah I see. Cheers

Originally Posted by D-Roc

Just my musings..
Basically, instead of hanging Jack without trial, i'm trying to establish whether his view has any standing in reality - whether he is infact the one who's "crazy" for denying the 'specialness' of the island (even once he saw it being moved)..or whether Jack has a point, and Locke is the mad one.

Well I'm shocked to say I'm going to have to back up Jack on this one *hits self*. Jack is a man of science and anything to do with faith or miracles he won't believe. I'm sure Jack has a scientific reason for all the things that have happened. Now of course I'm with Locke on this but you told me to see it through Jack's point of view and I have and I understand Jack's views and points. There's always two sides to an opinion.

Originally Posted by D-Roc

By using the 'glass' analogy, i am attempting to see whether or not I can understand why Jack has such a hard time believing in the island. After all, if someone told me that a piece of glass was "special" I'd suspect they were taking substances. That is, until I had experienced the mircales of the glass myself. Which Jack has. Hence Jack is in serious serious denial

Like I said above I can see why he has a hard time believing. If you saw somebody turn sand into glass and you were a man of faith you'd like OMG WOW!!! and instantly believe it was a miracle. But being a man of science you'd know it wasnt a miracle, it was just science. Now I know that doesnt compare to the miracles on the island but that's how Jack would see it.

[Miss Austen]

A good example of this is when Jack keeps seeing his father whom he knows he brought to the island in a coffin.

Locke rescues Jack when he's dangling off the cliff. Locke encourages Jack to be a leader because everyone treats him like one.

Jack sorta confides that he is experiencing strange things and if those things are real then he is about ready for the loony bin!

Jack's father (or the image of Jack's father) led him to the water which upped Jack's leadership potential because water is vital for survival.

Same with the hatch. Locke thought it was the entrance to some mystical place which would reveal things to them for a greater purpose. Jack was only interested in the hatch as a place to hide the Losties from the Others (survival) but they both agreed on opening the hatch for different reasons; whereas Sayid was hoping Jack would talk Locke out of opening the hatch.

The hatch seems to me a bit like religion. People use it for different reasons.