Did Locke Fail?

[IM-LOST-WITH-LOST]

I thought this would already have been discussed, but i can't really see a thread on it...

So we know that locke succeeded Ben, but does this mean he's already failed? The island / Jacob didn't really seem to like Ben that much, so wanted Locke as the leader, are we to assume that Locke has made similair mistakes to Ben and displeased the island or something. It's the only reason I can see Locke being off the island, apparently commiting suicide, and telling people the oceanic 6 that as soon as they left, bad things happen and they need to go back. Are these bad things Island related? Or Locke related?

[D-Roc]

I think that the island and Jacob did like Ben..however as Ben said, it's fickle.

That said, it's a powerful question. Did Locke's decisions cause things to turn bad, or did he just not have the experience/expertise to deal with an immense yet inevitiable situation..?

I think that at the heart of the island, lies an internal battle. Personally I think we could have a situation between the island's spirits and the island.

Or perhaps there is a thrid party that has come into play?

And what of Penny..can we really trust her? Hey, we must consider the most unlikely of possibilities.

I'll probably and something more coherant later..interesting question tho.

[Andy9283]

It makes me think WHEN he died?
He didn't come off island thru the Oceanic 6, and was still on island, ALIVE.
So if he died after this, how id his body get off the island? Hmmmm. ANd WHY?

So i think Locke has been dead for a lot longer than we all think. I have a lil theory he prob died in the plane crash, but neither he or his crash mates knew it.

[D-Roc]

According the the episode Locke came to see members of the O6 a month before his death. He died a few days before Jack and Ben came to see him at the funeral home, i'd assume.

I think Locke was able to travel to and from the island, much like Ben was able to during his reign..or as Ki first suggested, perhaps he had to turn the wheel in order to move the island, and subsequently was unablt to return..

When you say 'died in the plane crash', do you mean the originasl 815 plane crash or something else?

[aro1512mystar]

Originally Posted by IM-LOST-WITH-LOST

I thought this would already have been discussed, but i can't really see a thread on it...

So we know that locke succeeded Ben, but does this mean he's already failed? The island / Jacob didn't really seem to like Ben that much, so wanted Locke as the leader, are we to assume that Locke has made similair mistakes to Ben and displeased the island or something. It's the only reason I can see Locke being off the island, apparently commiting suicide, and telling people the oceanic 6 that as soon as they left, bad things happen and they need to go back. Are these bad things Island related? Or Locke related?

Did Locke really fail?? Was Ben just playing him all along?

I don't really know if i believe Lock is truly dead yet (i just have a feeling somethings simple is not been made clear to me yet but enough of that just now), but if he is how is Ben still 3 steps ahead as usual??

[sweet_cheeks]

Maybe it is just a ploy by Ben to get them back to the Island. The person in the coffin may well turn out not to John Locke.

[aro1512mystar]

yeah that was along the line of my thoughts good shout sweet cheeks

[Reed]

Some great points here and an interesting topic.

A Fake Locke could be VERY possible S.C, though I agree with some others [in another thread] whom mentioned that while Locke is actually dead, the dead are not really gone. In other words, Locke's journey will never end.

I love the idea that Locke himself had to turn the Wheel in the future, subsequently WHY he left the Island. Though I would imagine going to visit the O6 in regards to returning to the Island was important enough to leave; as Ben mentioned they ALL have to go back - "HAVE to go back". It is crucial to the Island [and their respective Destiny's perhaps?] that they all return.

I would not necessarily say Locke failed, perhaps he accomplished some things and his Journey [being alive] is over. Perhaps he did not have a BIG Destiny per say, but rather a smaller one - which would be a let down to say the least.

"Nothing is forever". Maybe Locke was not destined to be Leader FOREVER.

[Miss Austen]

What puzzles me is that although Locke seems to have replaced Ben, Ben hasn't exactly retired has he? He's still wheeling and dealing, meeting up with Widmore and still seems to have a great deal of power.

Locke may be the leader of the Others but why does Ben still seem to hold many of the cards? Locke kept asking Ben lots of questions but Ben never seems to give him much information. Is Ben holding onto power in another way that we aren't aware of yet? I still felt like Ben was in charge! I just can't see Ben playing second fiddle to anyone!

Perhaps the question shouldn't be "Did Locke fail" but Did Locke ever really lead?

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Miss Austen

What puzzles me is that although Locke seems to have replaced Ben, Ben hasn't exactly retired has he? He's still wheeling and dealing, meeting up with Widmore and still seems to have a great deal of power.

Locke may be the leader of the Others but why does Ben still seem to hold many of the cards? Locke kept asking Ben lots of questions but Ben never seems to give him much information. Is Ben holding onto power in another way that we aren't aware of yet? I still felt like Ben was in charge! I just can't see Ben playing second fiddle to anyone!

Perhaps the question shouldn't be "Did Locke fail" but Did Locke ever really lead?

Yes I feel this also. "The Man Behind The Curtain". We know that Jacob wanted Ben replaced, though obviously Ben by no means had to step aside completely as he STILL feels he needs to play a big part in saving the Island. He is committed and loyal to the cause.

I think you are correct there, Ben never gave Locke lots of information for fear of being 'replaceable'. He has held on to his 'value' even though Jacob chose Locke as Successor which was very clever.

Ben has "paid his dues" so to speak and served a great purpose and it is his right to stay in control as much as posssible. Jacob is 'ungrateful' and a 'user' it could be argued. I think there is room for TWO Leaders because the term Leader is subjective in this instance.