Jeremy Bentham

[lost-lover]

Jermey Bentham was the alias that we've found out was used by the off-island Locke. I found the use of this name to be a slight giveaway for Locke's covers, since they are both the names of philosophers. I thought it was interesting though, considering the conflicting ideas of the two people who they are really named after, I couldn't help but wonder if they've chosen this name to highlight the difference in Locke when he was on and off the island, maybe a hint to what we're yet to find out?
I'd also like to point out that the real Bentham was an economist. Possibly making Locke the same economist who Ben and Sayid were after in the flashforwards of the episode of the same title.

Here's a little background info:
Jeremy Bentham: The British philosopher and economist who advocated the concept of utilitarianism, which basically states that the moral worth of an action depends on the greatest good for the greatest amount of people. His work was very influential among the utopian socialists, who sought to build the perfect community.
Bentham was heavily influenced by the work of the real John Locke. He came up with the concept of the 'panopticon,' a circular prison where the inmates could be observed by a central observatory without them ever being able to tell if they're being watched or not. This would create a "sentiment of an invisible omniscience" that Bentham claimed would create "a new mode of obtaining power of mind over mind, in a quantity hitherto without example." Incidently, a simplified diagram of Bentham's concept looks very much like the original symbol of the Dharma Initiative.

I don't know if people will find this interesting or not, but I thought I'd post it anyway.

[harvey107]

Originally Posted by lost-lover

Jermey Bentham was the alias that we've found out was used by the off-island Locke. I found the use of this name to be a slight giveaway for Locke's covers, since they are both the names of philosophers. I'd also like to point out that the real Bentham was an economist. Possibly making Locke the same economist who Ben and Sayid were after in the flashforwards of the episode of the same title.

I don't know if people will find this interesting or not, but I thought I'd post it anyway.

Cheers for this, It was the same when I was watching and they said that names I immediately thought it would be Locke. I like that economist connection, it could almost point to Sayid working for Ben who is working with Locke

[lost-lover]

I'm not sure whether Ben's working with Locke though. The episode "The Economist" gave me the impression that Ben was working against the economist, since he was getting Sayid to infiltrate the man's personal shopper (I think that's who the lady was anyway?).

[harvey107]

Originally Posted by lost-lover

I'm not sure whether Ben's working with Locke though. The episode "The Economist" gave me the impression that Ben was working against the economist, since he was getting Sayid to infiltrate the man's personal shopper (I think that's who the lady was anyway?).

Yes sorry, I misunderstood I think the finale finally fried my brain

[lost-lover]

I'm lucky enough to have avoided the brain-frying.

[D-Roc]

Yes, I thought the same - Bentham representing the evolution (or devolution?) of Locke.

Interesting that both many share similar beliefs - both believed in freedom and variants of what we might call 'the greater good'.

It could be argued that Locke's shift from 'John Locke' to 'Jeremy Bentham' is less of a deviation than his 'Farmer>Hunter' dilemna.

Fundemantally it would appear that they are setting this neo-Locke to be more pragmatic.

Interestingly Bentham was opposed to "natural laws (rights)" - could this be an allusion to young Locke's failure to choose the "book of laws" in Cabin Fever?

[lost-lover]

I considered that as well. The whole law opposition is very reminiscent of young Locke.
It's interesting that Bentham was influenced by the real Locke's work. I like the point about how this could relate to the "devolution" of our Locke, it would certainly make sense considering he's now dead.
I can't help but wonder if he lost the leadership of the Others like Ben and chose to leave the island as a result. It'll be good to find out want made him leave, considering he was venomhently against the O6 leaving, and so certain they all belong on the island.

[Lauren [is Lost]]

Jeremy Bentham: The British philosopher and economist who advocated the concept of utilitarianism, which basically states that the moral worth of an action depends on the greatest good for the greatest amount of people. His work was very influential among the utopian socialists, who sought to build the perfect community.
Bentham was heavily influenced by the work of the real John Locke.

^^ That is SO interesting. Thanks for posting! We should definately try to decipher some meaning from this stuff...

[Kiowa Warrior]

Jeremy Bentham: The British philosopher and economist who advocated the concept of utilitarianism, which basically states that the moral worth of an action depends on the greatest good for the greatest amount of people.

A philosophy that Locke seemed to be following when he did all he did to protect and save the Island, rather than specifically expressing his desire to save individual people. Just because Locke didn't say to Jacob 'how can I save so and so?' and instead asked how he could save the Island, didn't mean he couldn't care less about the people on it. Just that he could have thought that he was acting in the best of intentions and with the best desired outcomes by putting the 'Island' first if you will.

And I do like the theory that Locke is The Economist. Well only when he's off the Island that is, otherwise he's just plain old Leader of the Others.

[lost-lover]

It still makes me wonder why Locke did in fact lead the island. Is it possible he was dethroned as the Others leader? In my opinion, it would suit for him to be using an alias like Bentham, who, in a way, represents his characters "devolution".

[sweet_cheeks]

Or maybe as the " new leader" he could come and go just like previous people did, to recruit new people.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Kiowa Warrior

A philosophy that Locke seemed to be following when he did all he did to protect and save the Island, rather than specifically expressing his desire to save individual people. Just because Locke didn't say to Jacob 'how can I save so and so?' and instead asked how he could save the Island, didn't mean he couldn't care less about the people on it. Just that he could have thought that he was acting in the best of intentions and with the best desired outcomes by putting the 'Island' first if you will.

And I do like the theory that Locke is The Economist. Well only when he's off the Island that is, otherwise he's just plain old Leader of the Others.

Yes, brilliant surmisation.

I've heard people critise Locke for putting the island over it's inhabitants and for expressly stating that he wanted to save the island...yet as your point and the Bentham analogy indicate, saving the island represented saving the people on it aswell.

It's like saying you want to save the world, rather than saying you want to save Tim Bob from Leeds and Gemma Scott from New York. It encompasses the moral worth in relation to the crux of the matter.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by lost-lover

I considered that as well. The whole law opposition is very reminiscent of young Locke.
It's interesting that Bentham was influenced by the real Locke's work. I like the point about how this could relate to the "devolution" of our Locke, it would certainly make sense considering he's now dead.
I can't help but wonder if he lost the leadership of the Others like Ben and chose to leave the island as a result. It'll be good to find out want made him leave, considering he was venomhently against the O6 leaving, and so certain they all belong on the island.

I like the way you phrased that, it just made things alot clearer for me in terms of what I think they could be hinting at:

"Bentham was influenced by the real Locke's work"

As I've stated elsewhere, could this 'version' of Locke be influenced by the past learnings of a past Locke..a Locke who once made the mistake of choosing the knife over the book of laws? There's definetely a time-loop/Dalai Lama thing going on here methinks.

Yes, Locke's death strikes me more as representing 'devolution' rather than progress. Although one would think that a Bentham-Locke would encompass all that the original Locke had and more. That's if we look at it from the philosopher angle and the notion that Bentham borrowed heavily from Locke.

Interesting - My gut tells me that Locke had to leave the island..like Ki stated in another thread, perhaps he had to turn the wheel..a consequence of being dethroned and an act which mean that he couldn't return (or wasn't supposed to return). Or perhaps he was able to come and go from the island like Ben, Tom and Alpert can/could, as has been suggested?