Secondary Protocol

[D-Roc]

Now this was facinating - Widmore laid plans for a "secondary protocol" in the event that Team Keam were unable to extract Ben..

What makes this sensational is that we now have the full objectives of Widmore's military arm - to "torch the island". So, does Widmore want the island destroyed..and not to occupy it like myself and others believed?

Also, how does this marry with the "rules" (book of laws?)..because we know that Widmore wants Ben alive..he doesn't want him dead..perhaps he can't kill him, just like Ben can't kill Widmore? Again..does this relate to the "rules" or perhaps 'paradox', in the way that Michael and possibly Jack and Locke also 'cannot be killed'...?

Also, Keamy mentions that the secondary protocol is in the event of locating Ben..how does widmroe know where Ben would go? Has Widmore lived through these events already (this would support my idea of time-loops, as well as corroborate Alpert's scene with young Locke)? As for this location - I'm think it's the Temple..or perhaps Jacob's Cabin? However what really puts the spike in this scene is the possible link to whatever station's logo Ben was wearing on his 'Marvin Candle/Hallowax' parka, as the logo on the 'secondary protocol' seemed mighty similar to the logo on the jacket:



Logo on Ben/Hallowax' jacket from 4.09:



A closer look:

[Kiowa Warrior]

Maybe Widmore wants the Island torched if he's unable to get Ben or the Island itself in the way that if I can't have it, neither can you: sort of like the ultimate bad loser!

The time travel Dharma reference is very interesting...maybe it means that there's a way to go back to an earlier stage of the game and rectify any mistakes in order to have another shot - to use another life - in order to win it?

[Lauren [is Lost]]

Originally Posted by Kiowa Warrior

Maybe Widmore wants the Island torched if he's unable to get Ben or the Island itself in the way that if I can't have it, neither can you: sort of like the ultimate bad loser!

I think that is possibly the answer. Widmore wants the island...but not as much as he doesn't want Ben to have it.

[D-Roc]

Yeah, good shout - and Widmore's "it's mine" rant reminded me very much of Ben's "You're mine" rant at Juliet. Widmore seems like he could be the type to destroy the island if he can't have it. But then if he's so close to capturing Ben..so why not continue this objective and then one Ben is caught, take the island for himself? But then as you said Ki, perhaps there's a way to go back and "change" things..do tings differently, so torching the island might mean the end of the 'game' (so to speak) and the start of a new game, where Widmore can try again to acquire the island and perhaps even change the rules to his favour?

I certainly think that loops come into play somewhere in all of this.

[Kiowa Warrior]

Originally Posted by Lauren [is Lost]

I think that is possibly the answer. Widmore wants the island...but not as much as he doesn't want Ben to have it.

Yeah, he clearly wants the Island and his best friend Ben, but if he can't get them he'd rather destroy everything then allow anyone else victory in the face of his defeat.

Originally Posted by D-Roc

Yeah, good shout - and Widmore's "it's mine" rant reminded me very much of Ben's "You're mine" rant at Juliet. Widmore seems like he could be the type to destroy the island if he can't have it. But then if he's so close to capturing Ben..so why not continue this objective and then one Ben is caught, take the island for himself? But then as you said Ki, perhaps there's a way to go back and "change" things..do tings differently, so torching the island might mean the end of the 'game' (so to speak) and the start of a new game, where Widmore can try again to acquire the island and perhaps even change the rules to his favour?

I certainly think that loops come into play somewhere in all of this.

Yeah, I reckon Ben and Widmore can both be very controlling and possesive at times, but while Ben wants to protect the Island at any cost Widmore wants it any cost, and if he can't then he'll destroy it out of anger and spite.

Perhaps he thinks - or maybe knows - that he's missed his best chance of capturing Ben, and so doesn't want to risk another defeat (maybe he knows about the Black Smoke?) and so is doing a sort of pre-meditated strike and is trying to destroy the Island now before he himself becomes destroyed. I do like the time loop/time alteration theory, and maybe Widmore really does consider this stage of the game a lost cause and wants to effectively re-boot his computer before his character is killed off and start the game afresh, only this time with better knowledge of the future so that when he reaches that same level again, he has a greater chance of completing it.

All this talk of game theories reminds me of the ones we had back in the day of S1! I'm quite happy they're showing their head again! I also remember - I think it was you who said it - that there were certain items placed throughout the Island - throughout the Game - which would either be a benefit or a hindrance to those who found or won them, such as the case full of guns Kate found at the bottom of the pool

We just need some more evidence to breathe life into the clone theories now

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Kiowa Warrior

Yeah, he clearly wants the Island and his best friend Ben, but if he can't get them he'd rather destroy everything then allow anyone else victory in the face of his defeat.



Yeah, I reckon Ben and Widmore can both be very controlling and possesive at times, but while Ben wants to protect the Island at any cost Widmore wants it any cost, and if he can't then he'll destroy it out of anger and spite.

Perhaps he thinks - or maybe knows - that he's missed his best chance of capturing Ben, and so doesn't want to risk another defeat (maybe he knows about the Black Smoke?) and so is doing a sort of pre-meditated strike and is trying to destroy the Island now before he himself becomes destroyed. I do like the time loop/time alteration theory, and maybe Widmore really does consider this stage of the game a lost cause and wants to effectively re-boot his computer before his character is killed off and start the game afresh, only this time with better knowledge of the future so that when he reaches that same level again, he has a greater chance of completing it.

All this talk of game theories reminds me of the ones we had back in the day of S1! I'm quite happy they're showing their head again! I also remember - I think it was you who said it - that there were certain items placed throughout the Island - throughout the Game - which would either be a benefit or a hindrance to those who found or won them, such as the case full of guns Kate found at the bottom of the pool

Now we just need some more evidence to breathe life into the clone theories now

yeah, it seems very much like a game of Chess at this point - with Widmore perhaps playing for damage limitation and wanting an end to this run of the game, and Ben trying to prolonge the game that bit longer. I do like the idea of Widmore knowing that he's missed his chance in this 'life' and so needs a next cycle in order to gain a better footing. Yeah, that's the thing, it seems that Lost's version of time-travel allows for 'memories' to be retained (we've seen it with Desmond and possibly Ben in 4.09)..so if Widmore is able to 'shift' the 'contest' back in time, perhaps he will be able to retain knowledge gained from the last iteration of events, and use this this advange.

It's mad isn't it - so many of our ideas are now seemingly coming into fruition! I just wish we still had all those thread to go back through. Oh yes, i think i remember saying that - you've got a good memory! I think we came up withn some pretty good ideas in relation to that - i so wish it wasn't deleted But yes, it could be argued that the strategic nature of the island/Jacob is really reinforcing the idea that the "items" placed throught the game represent different paths which can either benefit or hinder the outcomes. It's almost as if freewill and choice is wrapped in a bubble of fate - the different items being the choice variables, but the ultimate outcome (choice) being fixed as either 'right' or 'wrong'.

Haha, those theories were so great - I wouldn't bet against Lost going down this route..it's not too late!