Official Season 2 Episode 21 Discussion Thread

[Mantis Zero]

My thoughts to follow

[Him]

Brill Ep.

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by Him,September 05, 2006 11:10 pm

Brill Ep.

Yes, it was a strong one.

Initial complaint, to get it out of the way, is that, if Locke was that disillusioned, why bother showing him being marginally uplifted by Rose's reminding him about his magic legs? Would a slow, steady onscreen process of disillusion not have been more effective, without our being confused by new directions not followed up? I was confused anyway... this was not the Locke of two episodes ago.

I did love his speech about his pathetic little life though - very Walkabout - and his mocking his season 1 speech about Boone's being a sacrifice. And we know what his Deus Ex dream wanted him to find now! So it didn't want him to kill Boone anyway. But what would've changed had he found the Pearl? (Arrr.) He would've seen Desmond in his hatch, been freaked out slightly and probably would've tried to open it anyway.

More Malkin stuff, with the implication that he's been spying on Claire rather than sensing stuff about her. But then his daughter turns out to be a bit psychic. Interesting.

Re. the social experiment: I wonder (if it's even true) how far it goes. Is monitoring button pushing really any less an experiment than button pushing? There is, after all, a camera in the Pearl as well. Though apparently the Pearl people do get to go off to barracks after three weeks. In a ferry. I rather think there must indeed be another nearby landmass.

Poor Hurley and poor Libby, and scary Michael, who I must say is carrying off his cover story very well. Frighteningly well. And Kate, way to joke about Sawyer's relationship with a recently dead person. Was the situation really that funny?

[Mantis Zero]

So another hatch reveals itself! The mystery ? is the observation chamber, I had a feeling somebody was watching our Losties down that hatch. So who was manning The Pearl? I have a feeling those tunnels shown on the UV map lead to the pearl and the ? hatch was just an emergancy entrance/exit.

Eko didnt even think twice about his vision, he was straight up and out claiming he had a vision before which told him to build the church. So who told him to build the church in a dream? It wasnt Yemi so who was it?

Poor Hurley! His conversation with Michael was heart wrenching. They weren't really close but they were buddies at least, I guess Michael isnt an other nor has he been brainwashed as he seemed really cut up when he learned Hurley and Libby had something and the extent of what he had done really hit home.

If the others have camera's in the hatch then Michael could never have swerved them by faking Ana's death, which leads me on to the question how much does Mike know? As the alarm went off he went back into scathing mode as opposed to the guilty wreck we had seen him as for the rest of the episode. Does he know what the button really does?

Claire's psychic was a fraud - does he work for Dharma? Whats the deal with his daughter? Why does nothing make any sense now?

[Mushi]

Well that was a bit of a shocker to be honest.

I did accidently find out that there was a Hatch called the Pearl about 2weeks ago, note trips to Lostpedia are a danger, However I didnt know that it was an observation station!!

LOCKE where the scoob were your brains, didnt that tape have a rewind facility on it!! Oh I was so cursing!

Lockes little drawing, I wonder if someone will get that at the other end, and where the scoob does it go, it has to be on the island surely? Presuming it goes to birdseye and co, they will now know that our Losties know about the other hatch's??

I refuse to believe that the numbers are pointless I really do, Im conviced that Eko is on to something with "there is greater meaning in them" The numbers are just about too much to be pointless.

Well I watched Next on Lost on Sunday and I was conviced that they would get Michael for what he did, and now poor libby will take that secret to the grave with her. Im pretty sure that Michael even considered finishing off the job on libby even if it meant killing more of our losties.

As for Sawyer, I dont know if he is grieving for Ana after their little tumble, but well him and Kate looked close and its something I could never see Jack doing! Though yet again we seen more of his letting go issues, though he did seem to let go of libby quicker. Least Boone didnt die for nothing.

[~Alice~]

Oh... I'm so so proud of my Sawyer

Furious at Jack for starting that situation with the heroin... I mean, what if Sawyer had refused the blackmail, would he have let Libby suffer? Jack has really gone down with me lately...
But yes, Sawyer didn't even hesitate! He just accepted it because he couldn't bear to see Libby in pain - even called her "poor Libby", bless his heart. Didn't stall for time, didn't even attempt to talk Jack out of it. Just a "Let's go, Freckles". I did think it was rather harsh of Kate to talk that way to him about Ana-Lucia, but will push that back for now. Even when they reached his stash (so clever!) he didn't attempt to hide anything.
And then after Libby had died, when Kate was sitting there crying. He just went over to her, sat beside her and wrapped his strong arms around her... that's what instantly got me crying. He showed hardly any emotion over Ana, stayed strong like he always does, but this time he used it to comfort someone else. Kate, who's messed him up more than anyone else, but who he still cares for. To see him be there when no one else was and be a real shoulder to cry on for a change...
I'm just so proud of him (these are proud tears). And if anyone dares, DARES to say a bad word against him after tonight...

Back to the other aspects of the episode...

I was slightly put out that Libby managed to say "Michael" but no one realised what she was getting at!! And that there was no major Henry trek tracking action either, which I think would have been more interesting than the Locke/Eko adventure... two characters which I honestly don't enjoy watching that much. I don't know what to comment on the hatch really... so I won't even try.

Oh, and the phycic is a fake huh? Didn't see that one coming! So did he use his wonderful acting skills to persuade Claire onto that plane? Hum hum.

[Mantis Zero]

Originally Posted by Mushi,September 05, 2006 11:46 pm

Well that was a bit of a shocker to be honest.

I did accidently find out that there was a Hatch called the Pearl about 2weeks ago, note trips to Lostpedia are a danger, However I didnt know that it was an observation station!!

LOCKE where the scoob were your brains, didnt that tape have a rewind facility on it!! Oh I was so cursing!

Lockes little drawing, I wonder if someone will get that at the other end, and where the scoob does it go, it has to be on the island surely? Presuming it goes to birdseye and co, they will now know that our Losties know about the other hatch's??

I refuse to believe that the numbers are pointless I really do, Im conviced that Eko is on to something with "there is greater meaning in them" The numbers are just about too much to be pointless.

Well I watched Next on Lost on Sunday and I was conviced that they would get Michael for what he did, and now poor libby will take that secret to the grave with her. Im pretty sure that Michael even considered finishing off the job on libby even if it meant killing more of our losties.

As for Sawyer, I dont know if he is grieving for Ana after their little tumble, but well him and Kate looked close and its something I could never see Jack doing! Though yet again we seen more of his letting go issues, though he did seem to let go of libby quicker. Least Boone didnt die for nothing.

I dont think Mike would have killed more people, it seems Ana was his only real target and he was very anxious that Libby didnt pull through and point him out as the killer. I couldnt see him murdering Jack, Hurley, Sawyer and Kate though just to stop Libby talking - even if he was capabable of doing this his alibi has run away and I'm sure Locke and Eko wouldnt buy "Yeah he came back and shot everyone then ran off again, look he got me in the other arm this time!".

Locke's drawing though thats interesting! I almost forgot about that, but he has sent off his map to the head honcho's at Dharma, surely there will be reprecussions to this (especially since he marked on the swan quite clearly).

[Mushi]

Personally as a Michael fan I know you are rather blinded by him Mantis, I feel the same for Charlie, but believe me he looked very capable of finishing off Libby and anyone who got in his way!

Well if he finds out that Locke and Eko were at an observation station that could prove his guilt then I fear for their safety too!

Now I am going to go to bed and contemplate why for the 2nd week in a row I have felt picked on by you!

[Mantis Zero]

Originally Posted by Mushi,September 06, 2006 12:18 am

Personally as a Michael fan I know you are rather blinded by him Mantis, I feel the same for Charlie, but believe me he looked very capable of finishing off Libby and anyone who got in his way!

Well if he finds out that Locke and Eko were at an observation station that could prove his guilt then I fear for their safety too!

Now I am going to go to bed and contemplate why for the 2nd week in a row I have felt picked on by you!

Dont take it to heart Mush you just post points I want to discuss, nothing personal

[Mushi]

Well I think we all get a little wored up and over excited about Lost, and well heaven help us, I think I may need to go to the doctors to survive the season finalle!

Getting back to the drawing, I dont know much about these "vacum" things, perhaps someone with a little knowledge might help, but I cant see them going far, thats why I am convinced it is on island.

I know they are normally used in hospitals for disposing of needles and the like, and I know they are sometimes used for sending tests up to the labs for processing.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Just a quick word;

Was great seeing Locke and Eko interact more. Eko reminded me of a season 1 Locke, with Locke playing the sceptic old pro. I really feel for Locke, he obviously felt like his life had lost meaning until the 'island', started thinking that he was worth something - only for it to be taken away again. Although that video was just as vague as the last.

"All you have to know is that the test subjects believe what they are doing is the most important thing in the world"

- Still leaves everything wide open, I can't see the 'observation' hatch being another test - with them only being there 3 weeks

- So perhaps Michaels slaughter didn't go with Libby to the grave, perhaps there was a recording of our lots hatch (during the murder[s])!

The only negative that could come from this episode is now 2 of our most 'island-loving characters' are going to be down the hatch pressing the damn button

[Pynch]

woo hoo! loved this ep... a couple of points to add to the others....

Wasn't it ironic that Kate was the one to pronounce Ana dead? And in a pretty monotone "she's dead" voice too (with a silent mwah hah haaaaa )

Ana in Eko's dream - ooh I had goosebumps! That was almost a classic horror movie scene - makes me shiver just thinking about it....

The Pearl - had a full ladder, and a light at the top - significant? Could these inhabitants come and go? They were only there for three weeks (kinda sounded like work experience to me??!). I loved the log reports, and was looking for a 'declined' somewhere, but everything was 'accepted'..... did Henry push the button after all?

The psychic's daughter - my first thought was that the psychic's first reading was fake, but when he did his second reading (and told claire about the adoptive parents and the 815 flight), maybe he had been influenced by his daughter.... maybe she had 'got' something from claire at the first visit, and told her dad that he had to give her a message......

and telling Hurley - didn't I say thats how it would happen??! (well, nearly - I got the no-sound and slightly slow motion thing! But Kate, not Jack... ah!)

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by Mushi,September 05, 2006 11:46 pm

I refuse to believe that the numbers are pointless I really do, Im conviced that Eko is on to something with "there is greater meaning in them" The numbers are just about too much to be pointless.

I suppose Eko's getting at the idea that faith for faith's sake along is worthwhile, even when someone's come along and told you that, actually, there's nothing in it. I can't say I go along with that idea, but perhaps Eko thinks either that there's another unexplained reason for the button pushing or that letting Dharma know that people will continue to push the button even when they know it does nothing is important in itself.

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by Mantis Zero,September 05, 2006 11:29 pm

Eko didnt even think twice about his vision, he was straight up and out claiming he had a vision before which told him to build the church. So who told him to build the church in a dream? It wasnt Yemi so who was it?

I assumed he was referring to the visions he saw in the Black Smoke, the last of which was Christ on the cross... he did have the mission-instilled air of Locke after his own encounter in Walkabout.

[Pynch]

can anyone find screencaps of Eko's dream - the one where lots of images flashed up at once? I tried to keep up, but failed......