Jack: The Plan Upon Returning

[Reed]

Before bumping into Ben at the Funeral Parlour, Jack wanted to go back to the Island. But what exactly did he hope to accomplish? Of course now the O6 will have Ben's 'guidance', but even at that rate what is there to achieve except of course for fending off Widmore [when he arrives].

I suppose he had no REAL plan except to return and "go with the flow" so to speak once he returned. Perhaps regardless of what he is 'supposed' to do upon re-arrival he knows he is home. I suppose any of the negativity he was feeling upon leaving would reduce at the very least and he could be 'contempt'.

On a side note, did they ever plan on rescuing the rest of the Survivors or did they purely plan to live happily ever? Many of those who remained behind played a part [over the course of the Seasons] in getting the O6 rescued; Sawyer & Juliette especially. Of course NOW, Jack wants to return for himself. Is this not a little selfish, not just of him but all the O6.

I know there are likely threads on what Ben [with help from the O6] plans to do upon returning to the Island, but what do you think Jack wants from it? Will he regret returning or will he find peace and/or his Destiny?

There has always been something to do, be it battling the Others and the Freighters but he returns there will be NO enemy and nothing to do. I take it Jack will take a pro-active approach as Locke has done throughout the Seasons in finding his purpose.

Good thing Ben found him I suppose as not only can he now [presumably] return to the Island, but now he will have guidance.

[Miss Austen]

Jack has extremely good recall. He was told the numbers by Desmond just once and remembered them and was able to pass the numbers on to Locke.

Therefore Jack would recall that Ben told him there would come a time when Jack would WANT to return to the island. Jack found that laughable at the time - but obviously doesn't now.

Jack would also recall that Locke told him that the consequences of his actions (leaving the island) would eat into his soul. Can't recall Locke's exact wording but it was along those lines.

Jack is a fixer. He's been told by Locke (aka Jeremy Bentham) that the bad things happening on the island are his fault because he left. Jack would need to go back to fix that. Also recall that Jack and Kate were mostly happy on the island despite the odd tiff they had; but now their relationship has completely broken down.

Before Ben showed up, Jack would have realised that Ben and Locke's predictions about his regret for leaving the island and wanting/needing to go back were coming true.

Yes, Jack will have guidance from Ben which seems sincere BUT you never know with Ben do you?

Jack will want to know what has gone wrong on the island and what he can do to turn things around. That could be quite a challenge for Jack and who knows what other problems will arise when they return?!

[D-Roc]

Interesting.

I think that Jack is so riddled by guilt and missed opportunity that he is on damage limitation..he will do anything (including kill himself..and others onboard any airliner he happens to be flying) in order to either make up for his mistakes or put an end to his suffering.

It's quite scarey when I think about it - the fact that Jack wanted the plan to crash (3.23) in hope of getting back to the island. Does he think it's that easy? Evidently it's not seeing as the island probably would have crashed the plane had the other O6 members been onboard with him.

I would agree with you Reed, I don't think Jack has a 'plan' per se. In some ways he seems to be like Locke was before he went to the island - upset, tortured, desperate, angry..but with a sense of knowing that this was what he was supposed to do:

"It's my destiny dammit, I'm supposed to do this!" (word to the effect of)

Whilst I do think that Jack's desire to get back is attached with different motivations and perhaps more insight, he's been guided (or forced) by similar forces (Christian, Claire) that guided Locke (Abbadon, Alpert)

[Miss Austen]

Yes, Jack told Kate about his frequent trips on airliners hoping the planes might crash. TBH I don't think Jack really thought the planes would crash but he was desperate and at the end of his tether. Even Jack is appalled because he didn't care over much if the other passengers crash with him on his frequent flyer trips.

Yep! I'd forgotten about Claire being a motivational factor for Jack's return. Jack will feel like Claire's protector and defender now he knows there is a blood link between them.

Mind you, he took good care of Claire before; apart from when he was slow to believe her when she reported she had a stalker (Ethan) when she was pregnant!

Having something to fix should ensure that Jack gets his act together again. He probaby won't like it when he returns to the island only to find Claire has gone walkabout though! Perhaps Miles will be able to tell Jack what has happened to Claire?

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Joke-R

Interesting.

I think that Jack is so riddled by guilt and missed opportunity that he is on damage limitation..he will do anything (including kill himself..and others onboard any airliner he happens to be flying) in order to either make up for his mistakes or put an end to his suffering.

It's quite scarey when I think about it - the fact that Jack wanted the plan to crash (3.23) in hope of getting back to the island. Does he think it's that easy? Evidently it's not seeing as the island probably would have crashed the plane had the other O6 members been onboard with him.

I would agree with you Reed, I don't think Jack has a 'plan' per se. In some ways he seems to be like Locke was before he went to the island - upset, tortured, desperate, angry..but with a sense of knowing that this was what he was supposed to do:

"It's my destiny dammit, I'm supposed to do this!" (word to the effect of)

Whilst I do think that Jack's desire to get back is attached with different motivations and perhaps more insight, he's been guided (or forced) by similar forces (Christian, Claire) that guided Locke (Abbadon, Alpert)

Guilt, regret and missed opportunities are often TOO powerful to move past and in Jack's case it is even worse being that he cannot return to the Island - or so he thought at the time. It is quite to see him in the state he was in the S3 flashforward. He can never make up for leaving in the real world, which is more tragic.

Jack was desperate and simple logic made him believe another plane could crash, almost as if he were tainted or would taint the plane. Knowing you can never go back, or undo the past is not a nice feeling and as a result Jack had 'hope', false hope - but hope nonetheless even if it was unlikely. Nice idea, perhaps the Island would have. Perhaps that is how they go BACK [with Ben]?

Nice comparison there and I agree. I hope Jack can find solace in Locke.

I cannot recall this, but did Jeremy Bentham visit Jack before he died?

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Miss Austen

Yes, Jack told Kate about his frequent trips on airliners hoping the planes might crash. TBH I don't think Jack really thought the planes would crash but he was desperate and at the end of his tether. Even Jack is appalled because he didn't care over much if the other passengers crash with him on his frequent flyer trips.

Yep! I'd forgotten about Claire being a motivational factor for Jack's return. Jack will feel like Claire's protector and defender now he knows there is a blood link between them.

Mind you, he took good care of Claire before; apart from when he was slow to believe her when she reported she had a stalker (Ethan) when she was pregnant!

Having something to fix should ensure that Jack gets his act together again. He probaby won't like it when he returns to the island only to find Claire has gone walkabout though! Perhaps Miles will be able to tell Jack what has happened to Claire?

I also sensed a feeling of him being appalled by wanting the plane to crash.

I wonder whether Claire will believe Jack that they are related. I think Claire is far beyond being "fixed", I think she is doomed for.

[Miss Austen]

Hi Reed,

Yes, can definitely confirm that Jeremy Bentham did visit Jack. At the end of Season 4 Jack tells Ben in the funeral home that Locke/Bentham visited him. Jack told Ben that Locke had told him bad things happened on the island after the O6 left and it was all Jack's fault.

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Miss Austen

Hi Reed,

Yes, can definitely confirm that Jeremy Bentham did visit Jack. At the end of Season 4 Jack tells Ben in the funeral home that Locke/Bentham visited him. Jack told Ben that Locke had told him bad things happened on the island after the O6 left and it was all Jack's fault.

Oh good, as that brings me to what I had planned to say. Joke-R mentioned about "forces/guides" and of course Locke was one of them, which made me think about the type of conversation they likely had. It just fascinates me. I completely forgot all of what Jack said in that scene so thank you for that.

I wonder how Jack reacted to seeing Locke. I would imagine listening to him was the thing that literally sent him over the edge, while reading about Locke's death pushed him even further.

I love how it puts into perspective Jack's sadness over reading the article and attending the funeral of the deceased man. Take for instance Jack saying "forgive me". Obviously at the time I thought he was saying it to God, but now we know he was saying it to the Suvivors and Locke.

Do you suppose Locke told Jack HOW he could return to the Island? We know Jack had boarded LOTS of flights in the hope they crashed, which means he ALREADY wanted to return even before meeting Bentham. It is VERY interesting that Jack wanted to return even BEFORE being told things happened and that it was all his fault.

I wonder how on Earth it is Jack's fault? And presumably Widmore has not found the Island by this point so what on Earth are these supposed "bad things"?

[Miss Austen]

Re the bad things. The only scenario that would make sense to me is that perhaps Jack rather than Locke was meant to be the leader of The Others! I know that sounds strange; but that is all I can see that would cause bad things to happen and yet Christian Shepherd seemed quite happy for Jack to leave with Aaron (for the time being at any rate).

I can only think Locke is devastated at having to leave the island but had to leave to give Jack the message. Perhaps he knew that Ben would find a way to get them all back to the island (including Locke) and destiny can now play without interrruption.

[MarkC]

I know Locke was not part of O6 but when ben said they have to go back to the Island i cant remember whether he said anything about Locke's body been brought back with them.

Also if Jack wants to go back to the Island as somehow he and kate's relationship was better there would he not weigh up the fact that sawyer is there and we all know about them two!

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Miss Austen

Re the bad things. The only scenario that would make sense to me is that perhaps Jack rather than Locke was meant to be the leader of The Others! I know that sounds strange; but that is all I can see that would cause bad things to happen and yet Christian Shepherd seemed quite happy for Jack to leave with Aaron (for the time being at any rate).

I can only think Locke is devastated at having to leave the island but had to leave to give Jack the message. Perhaps he knew that Ben would find a way to get them all back to the island (including Locke) and destiny can now play without interrruption.

That is an interesting idea regarding Jack but one would imagine how on Earth that was 'supposed' to come about. Then again it would seem Locke's rise as Leader of the Others came about by mistake [or as a contingency plan] in you think about it. But Jack as Leader of the Others is plausible as to why things went wrong.

Unless of course the "bad things" involved Widmore, which cannot be the case because Widmore stated he is trying to find the Island. However, while the conversation between Widmore and Ben was apparantly 10 months into the future [according to D-Roc; can anyone else confirm this?], the events at the Funeral Parlour with Jack and Ben were likely even FURTHER into the future.

As such, Widmore may be already on the Island causing havoc and keeping the likes of Sawyer ansd Juliet hostage, perhaps killing the Survivors who cause problems?

Good point regarding Christian - or the Island for that matter - allowing Jack to leave. However as we have seen with the Island/Jacob/Ben being unable to stop the O6 leaving, it would seem Destiny often fails to successfully achieve the 'correct' path. WHY is this do you think?

Why do you suppose Locke had to leave, why did it have to be him as surely he is important to the grand scheme of things and now he is dead. Why did the Island LET him die and not protect him like it did with Michael? Is Locke's journey over and the Island has no use for him?

What do you mean "Destiny can play without interruption"?