So?

[IM-LOST-WITH-LOST]

Ok, I dont want to Ben hate because I'm not saying I'm becoming a fan, but since Alex's death, i have sympathised with him... A little. But was anyone else really annoyed at him when he said this tonight?? I mean, alright i can understand his 'want' to murder keamy, but after realising he'd basically killed everyone on that boat for personal satisfaction, he didn't show any remorse at all. Perhaps this is why Jacob wants Locke as the new leader? As at least locke values life...

Anyway's all i can say is R.I.P Jin R.I.P Michael (Kinda ) And Rest In Peace you poor poor red shirts

[The_abbott]

Jin's not dead!

But poor red shirts. One of them was Rose's stand in (RIP)

oh and poor Michael I suppose!

[JB Sawyer]

Originally Posted by IM-LOST-WITH-LOST

As at least locke values life...

?

[The_abbott]

yeah tell that to poor Naomi!

and Boone

[-x-madegurl-x-]

Originally Posted by The_abbott

Jin's not dead!

But poor red shirts. One of them was Rose's stand in (RIP)

oh and poor Michael I suppose!

How do you know it was Rose?

[The_abbott]

she has the same hairstyle, size and clothes as Rose. And I remember early on reading an interview that said most of the cast have stand ins and they needed one for Rose as she was hardly sen in Season 1.

[-x-madegurl-x-]

so one of Rose's last lines would be "Who said you could have them peanuts"
Although tbh, Dan only took one boat load back after that so the closest she could be is on the boat.

[monster-eats-pilot]

That so? scene made me giggle

[D-Roc]

At first I thought it was out of character to make him say that..but after I thought about it I realised that it was the kind of reaction that made the most sense..I mean he had just lost his daughter..the man who executed his 16 year old girl taunted him and taunted him. Ben wasn't thinking about the people on the boat..and to be fair they're not his concern..no-one is so good that they can seperate the grief of a lost love one with people who don't give two hoots about Ben. He was in a very bad place at that moment..just as he had recovered his composure, Martin goes and shows up and runs salt in his wounds.

To Ben's credit he even explained to Locke (afterwards) that he was unable to seperate his emotional grief with a command decision. Ben does champion "innocents" and he does alot to protect them..but sometimes the world makes your turn on your own beliefs and morals..there's always something that you love so much, that when pushed you'll snap and not care about anything else at that moment in time.

I hope people appreciate this because Ben has had plently of chances to kill the Losties..yet he hasn't he's strived to protect people who are innocent in this war, and I love him for that.

I can understand why you were upset ILWL (and credit to you for reconsidering your stance on Ben)..but I think that had any of us just suffered the loss Ben had, we too would have reacted either in scornful silence, rage, or "so?"

[Reed]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

At first I thought it was out of character to make him say that..but after I thought about it I realised that it was the kind of reaction that made the most sense..I mean he had just lost his daughter..the man who executed his 16 year old girl taunted him and taunted him. Ben wasn't thinking about the people on the boat..and to be fair they're not his concern..no-one is so good that they can seperate the grief of a lost love one with people who don't give two hoots about Ben. He was in a very bad place at that moment..just as he had recovered his composure, Martin goes and shows up and runs salt in his wounds.

To Ben's credit he even explained to Locke (afterwards) that he was unable to seperate his emotional grief with a command decision. Ben does champion "innocents" and he does alot to protect them..but sometimes the world makes your turn on your own beliefs and morals..there's always something that you love so much, that when pushed you'll snap and not care about anything else at that moment in time.

I hope people appreciate this because Ben has had plently of chances to kill the Losties..yet he hasn't he's strived to protect people who are innocent in this war, and I love him for that.

I can understand why you were upset ILWL (and credit to you for reconsidering your stance on Ben)..but I think that had any of us just suffered the loss Ben had, we too would have reacted either in scornful silence, rage, or "so?"

I agree with this, while adding that had Ben NOT killed Keamy [or at the very least incapacitated him; unlikely actually] Keamy [and more of Widmore's men in the future?] would have killed more Survivors. Ben HAD to move the Island.

Interestingly, it is a shame he did not somehow and miraculously incapacitate Keamy and then move the Island because his 'C4-Pulse' device would have been rendered useless.

I cannot justify Ben's 'motives' here but people tend to act unrationally in severe circumstances and mental states.

[IM-LOST-WITH-LOST]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

I mean he had just lost his daughter..the man who executed his 16 year old girl taunted him and taunted him.

I understand that Keamy was taunting Ben, and I also understand why Ben felt he had to kill Keamy, but that's not the issue of this thread. When discovering he'd just killed everyone on the frieghter, he simply replied with 'So?' This villainous response really does Ben's character justice in showing how he has no empathy for others, and how he doesnt care who gets killed as long as he gets what he wants. How can Ben not see that by killing everyone on the frieghter, he is taking lives, like Alex's. How would Ben react if everyones parents who'd died on the frieghter suddenly tried to track Ben down and kill him? Would he simply understand what they're going through and let them kill him? I doubt it, He'd probably kill their parents aswell. (I know that the parents tracking him down is next to impossible, but it's just theoretical )

Ben wasn't thinking about the people on the boat..and to be fair they're not his concern..no-one is so good that they can seperate the grief of a lost love one with people who don't give two hoots about Ben.

Are you really being serious? So because these people don't follow Ben's orders, 'give two hoots about him,' or respect him, It's Ok for Ben to just kill them. I can understand what your trying to say in that he values Alex's life over everyone on the frieghters, but again, when he's killed them, he isn't sorry, as he clearly statets 'So?' Plus, Ben fails to realise that he's done something similair to what Keamy did, as he's basically killed someones family member, and doesn't even care....

To Ben's credit he even explained to Locke (afterwards) that he was unable to seperate his emotional grief with a command decision.

Explaining his decisions isn't showing he's sorry, its simply explaining his decisions. I just rewatched that scene on youtube, and straight after the killing, Locke say's 'Why?' Ben simply replies, 'Why What?' .... This really isnt sorry... and your telling me that an intelligent man like Ben can't see the irony in his actions?

Ben does champion "innocents" and he does alot to protect them..but sometimes the world makes your turn on your own beliefs and morals..there's always something that you love so much, that when pushed you'll snap and not care about anything else at that moment in time.

Ok, first off, Ben doesn't champion 'Innocents,' and he does not protect them. I dont want to de-rail this thread off the original 'So' topic, but Ben certainly didn't value the Losties lives did he?? Or, he didn't value the innocent lives of the people on the freighter, when he showed no remorse in blowing up? Also, I'd like you to remember your own statement, 'sometimes the world makes you turn on your own beliefs and morals,' when you slate someone like Kate for killing her dad. Again, without de-railing, can you not see the slight irony? I'm definatley not saying its the same thing, but just remember your own words.

I hope people appreciate this because Ben has had plently of chances to kill the Losties..yet he hasn't he's strived to protect people who are innocent in this war, and I love him for that.

Say what? Before season 4, Ben's done whatever he could to make their lives miserable, he even apoligies to Locke for it. Ben has been in no position to kill losties this season, he's always been a prisoner. He's not thick, and I think it's easy to see that if he'd killed a lostie, he'd be the next one to go, it's not that he's tried to protect them, its that he's tried to protect himself.

I can understand why you were upset ILWL (and credit to you for reconsidering your stance on Ben)

Thanks, but I must say im Re-reconsidering ... Not that i was liking Ben in the first place, it was more sympathy than like, but who knows, perhaps in the distant distant future, if Ben decides to change his ways, I may decide to forgive him I wonder if it will happen though

I think that had any of us just suffered the loss Ben had, we too would have reacted either in scornful silence, rage, or "so?"

Yeah I know what he's gone through, I probably would have killed Keamy myself, but I would have been sorry, and i probably would have reacted by saying, 'Oh Sh!t' rather than 'So'

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Reed

I agree with this, while adding that had Ben NOT killed Keamy [or at the very least incapacitated him; unlikely actually] Keamy [and more of Widmore's men in the future?] would have killed more Survivors. Ben HAD to move the Island.

Oh yes, that's a good point - I had actually forgotten about what would have happened had Ben not killed Keamy - he would have torched the island and everyone woud have died.

Even in his disorientated rage, Ben still made the greater good choice..the ultilitarian choice.

Interestingly, it is a shame he did not somehow and miraculously incapacitate Keamy and then move the Island because his 'C4-Pulse' device would have been rendered useless.

True...his device must have a distance limit. Although it makes me wonder how it even worked that far underground.

I cannot justify Ben's 'motives' here but people tend to act unrationally in severe circumstances and mental states.

Indeed..I also cannot condone any death, however Ben was clearly not thinking staight (who would be after seeing Keamy shoot their only daughter through the head and leave her body for the crows?) but surely most of us can understand what uncontrollable rage this would summon up inside a person.