Official UK 4.13 There's No Place Like Home (Parts 2 & 3) Discussion Thread

[Lauren [is Lost]]

My review from the ABC thread...

Ok so i have recovered from watching the episode and i have also watched it again....so here goes my review.

Well, to start, what an absolutely fantastic episode. Season finales are always amazing, so i was expecting something great, and i was not disappointed! It included everything it should have, answered some important questions, and basically just kicked butt

Firstly, i loved the Desmond/Jin/Michael combo - thought they were brilliant and very brave! I love Desmond anyway...Jin i thought was great (and it made me laugh when he said "Boom", lol). And Michael...i thought he definately redeemed himself. I dont think Michael really understood Christian's "You can go now, Michael", but he obviously meant 'You can die now'. Bit of a hero now, eh?
Jin's death didnt affect me majorly, but it was sad to see him go. Mainly because of the fact that he died to save everyone else...and because of Sun's reaction when she realised what had happened. That was a great piece of acting i thought - when she was screaming for Jin i really felt her grief & devastation. It was awful RIP Jin! Although to be honest, i think Jin probably is dead, but knowing Lost i wouldn't be surprised if he wasnt! He was sort of on the edge of the boat....he might have managed to get into the water and survived. Like i said, probably not....but you never know.

I thought Ben's 'plan' was pretty cool - so Alpert 'kidnapped' Kate & Sayid in order to help free Ben. Also i thought it said a lot when Ben fell down while they were running and Kate went back to help him up - shows how things have changed! Sayid was a brave man to take on Keamy, but kudos to him for winning...well, with Alpert's help

I was very surprised to see Walt! My hasn't he grown!! I wasn't even sure it was MDK at first! Although on second viewing i realised that Hurley basically just told Walt that Michael was still on the island - yet he knows that Michael blew himself up on the boat. Ahh...poor Walt.

I LOVED all the scenes in the Orchid - Locke & Ben were a great combo - and the stuff with Jack was brilliant as well, i thought. Locke made me laugh though - "I think you should reconsider, Jack, i'd like you to stay". LOL. AS IF Jack was ever gonna do that!! Honestly Locke...you should know better by now.
It was really interesting to see inside the station and watch the orientation film (even though we have seen loads of them now!) - and great to get confirmation of the time travel business. The whole scene where Ben blew open the vault, climbed down to the wheel and 'moved the island' was phenomenal - one of the best ever scenes in Lost, i think - it was just brilliant to watch. Wonder what exactly Ben meant by "I hope you're happy, Jacob". But anyway, it was so fascinating watching the whole thing and seeing exactly what Ben did - how on earth do the writers think up these things?! Fantastic stuff...i applaud you!! Also this might sound dumb but i couldn't believe the island actually just physically disappeared - it was incredible! Jack's face was a picture - and he did make me laugh when he still refused to believe that Locke had actually moved the island even after that - lol.

I think Keamy succeeded himself in the terror stakes in this episode - i mean, i always thought he was a really scary guy, but in this episode - mainly in the Orchid scenes - i really found him utterly terrifying!! I am very glad he is dead - despite what happened on the boat as a result!

On to that...i think this is final proof that Ben DOES kill innocent people. No excuses - no one can deny that know. And i KNOW he killed Keamy purely because he killed Alex - i understand his grief and how he must be feeling towards Keamy - but the way he responded to John's "You've just killed everyone on that boat" showed a lot about Ben i think. He just went "So?" and showed absolutely no remorse or care about what he'd just done. Very rash, Linus...no points for that, i'm afraid.

I think Daniel definately knew what was going to happen to the island when he was on the beach with Jules - he knew he wasn't coming back. Quite interesting about Charlotte as well, possibly being a dharma baby. I wonder what is going to happen about the island in the next series? So it's moved with the others, John, Juliette, Sawyer and Charlotte on it - is that it? What happened to Daniel & the randoms in the boat?
Also i think something to note is the fact that Juliet and Sawyer don't actually know whether the O6 are still alive, after seeing the boat explode. I guess they probably wont find out for another few years (normal time!!) either...which is pretty awful, considering how much Sawyer cares for Kate.

Speaking of Sawyer - O M G!!! I cannot believe he jumped off that chopper like that. I know he did it purely for Kate, which was so so sweet and utterly selfless of him, for once. How this guy has changed since season 1! I was SO proud of him when he did that, and very moved that he would sacrifice his own rescue to save everyone else. It was so so brave!

I want to know why moving the island means you can't go back there? And why/how it sent Ben into the desert? It obviously sent him into the future too, as he arrived in the desert and Sayid was already burying Nadia. Hmm. I also want to know what Locke meant when he said to Jack that 'bad things' happened on the island after the 6 left. That's obviously a set up point for season 5.

Also it was interesting to see Claire again - and interesting to know that even though Kate is playing mum to Aaron and Claire obviously wants him, she still wants Aaron to stay off-island with Kate. Hmm...

I absolutely loved the Des & Penny scenes!! I cannot tell you how happy i was that they finally found each other. Probably the best love story in Lost...and it was just so sweet - they'd been searching for each other for years and they were finally reunited. Such a lovely scene, and it made my eyes well up! <33 aww. I was made up for them!

So all in all - an absolutely fantastic episode - one of the very best. 10/10! And a great ending to a great series. I am really sad that Lost is over for another year - i don't know HOW i am going to wait until 2009 - that's SUCH a long time! I will miss it lots. But all i can say now is - ROLL ON SEASON 5!!

[esn]

Ok.

Best. Episode. Ever.

Soo thrilling - those Bomb scenes brought me back to season 2 and the Button - top quality stuff. Also great acting from everyone involoved - cant fault it.

I gotta say, Im like the Oceanic 6 - still in shock. I mean where did the Island go? and how did Locke get off the island? and why is Claires message conflicting with Bens? a top quality lost episode and fianle that once again, changes the game.

Id also like to say at this juncture, that this is the episode where we found out who the people we've been soo absorbed in over the last 4 years really were - we finally peeled back the final cover almost. Sorry its gotta be said, Ben is a villian and Sawyer is a hero, no two ways about it.

And I was cheering on Sayid when he was fighting with Keamy - I really wanted Sayid to knock his block off.

And interesting that Hurley was playing chess with Mr Eko - I wonder how many more dead Losties hes been playing chess with?

Also, what made Miles and Charlotte stay??? and what was the bad stuff??? All very intirguing and worth thinking about.

I have to watch that again as they say...


Just 2 more seasons to go now...

[The_abbott]

Compelling stuff all the way through (well OK minus Kate's flashback) but 9/10.

A few thoughts on where each character can now go:

Ben:

He is out for revenge for Alex's death. He was transported to 2005 after turning the donkey wheel (wearing the parka from 4x09). Why? How? He wasn't in the time/space/bundlefly chamber was he.

Does he have to go back or can he stay off the island. Does he want to go back?

Charlotte:

Finally, some mystery is coming out of her character. She was born on the island?? Is she Annie?

Frank:

The guy is brilliant - crashed a helicopter but everyone still survived! - His part in Lost is over (unless we get a back story on him and Seth or Frank is killed by Widmore)

Desmond:

I can't see Desmond being a regular anymore. What part can he play? Penny must be in hinding and Desmond with her. I can see Desmond only being a guest star from now on. His main story arc is now over. Still, it was great seeing them reuinted but there was a lack of chemisty between the actors this time when they finally did hug (unless it was just me? there was more chemistry over the phone LOL!)

Jin:
No way is this dude dead. Hes a hero staying until the end to defuse the bomb. I reckon he will be picked up by Daniel and the zodiac.

Sun:
Whilst every one else of the Oceanic Six will team up with Ben, it seems Sun will be doing a deal with Charles Widmore. Will she go back to the island as a spy? Blames Jack for Jin's death but there wasn't a awful lot Jack could do this time Sun.

Kate:
Visited by Claire in a dream not to take Aaron back but did Ben mean that he has too? Claire said don't so there are conflicting views on who is right here.

Sawyer:
Hero of the week. I didn't see Hurley jump out, or Sayid, or Jack....or selfish Kate. No it was left to Sawyer who used to be the most selfish on the island which shows how much his character has changed on the island.

Michael:
Rest in peace -

Christian:

So sick of this man appearing now. It goes to show Jack is Jacob (IMO) which is why Jack is not on his own list. Thats why he needs to go back

Locke:
Time travelling dead corpse Locke (or Jeremy ). I had a feeling it was him or Ben so not too surprised (I'm sure Kiowa was unconsolable last night). I hope its not a 'lets all go back and reserruct John Locke into a zombie' plot. How did he get off teh island? Did he misuse the time/space pod? Who killed him? Widmore?

Jack:

Finally realises Locke was right about everything - took him 3 years . But how can he convince Kate and Sun to go back?

Steve:

Yep, still alive on the zodiac (hes the one with the blue checked shirt). Still trapped on the island with Juliet, Miles, Sawyer, Rose, et all)

Rose:

L. Scott must have been chuffed to be flown to Hawaii for that small brief scene . What was the point? or setting up a Miles/Rose plot for season 5?

So a few season 5 plot threads in motion. Off island - Jacks attempts to get the Six to go back with Locke's corpse. Difficult to see this being a flash forwards. Off island must be the new 'present time'

On island we have the Charlotte back story to be told by the looks of things.

[firebreathingfishies]

Originally Posted by The abbott
I can't see Desmond being a regular anymore.

SHUT UP!! *breaks down*

Otherwise I agree with everything else you said

[The_abbott]

Originally Posted by firebreathingfishies

SHUT UP!! *breaks down*

Otherwise I agree with everything else you said

I'm sorry FBF but where can his character go now? Unless Widmore tortures him for info

I hope Alan Dale is a regular next year!

I thought you were a mod?

[firebreathingfishies]

He can go many places! Anyway there's still the whole Ben wanting to kill Penny thing which Desmond is going to be all 'You canne kill mah girlfriend '. And Widmore wouldn't dare

I abandoned my post and was apparently sacked

[JB Sawyer]

From the ABC thread (I now really hope those two aren't merged)...

Amazing. Spectacular. Stupendous. Thrilling. Awesome. Absolutely bloody brilliant. Use whatever adjective you want to describe this seasons finale episode, it goes down in history in Lost as being a truly epic 1 hour and 23 minutes of television. When Lost first captured our hearts and minds it was because of episodes like this. We’ve had finals like Live Together Die Alone and Through The Looking Glass, finals which many, including myself, will say never really lived up to Exodus. There’s No Place Like Home did. And more. There were many who cited that the flash-forwards simply wouldn’t work, claiming that the original of season 3 finale fame was merely used as a shock tactic. After all Lost was based on flashbacks. Many said flash-forwards had caused a distinct change in Lost, a change not necessarily for the better. They were wrong. There’s No Place Like Home gave the flash-forwards a fitting and utterly breathtaking conclusion. All season long we had been teased with the fact that 6 people, plus one Benjamin Linus, got off the Island. The television show that we had fallen in love with was based upon a group of survivors crash landing on a mysterious Island. So now to know that some of these people did indeed return to the real world, gave people a somewhat frightening glimpse at the end of a television series that nobody wants to end. As soon as the last of the Oceanic 6 were revealed, many instantly thought to themselves that the end of Series 6 was merely going to be their respective rescues. After all, the fitting end to a show about people trying to get rescued would be them getting rescued. And so for There’s No Place Like Home to show the events directly surrounding the Oceanic 6’s escape and rescue seemed a little premature, for lack of a better description. We now know everything there is to know about the survivors – from the plummet of Flight 815 to the escape from the Island for the lucky 6. Season 4 indeed has been extremely focused on the events after the 6 found rescue, a concept which seemed destined to be stretched to the shows very end. But did it seem rushed? Not a chance. Everything was impeccably timed, a ladder being slowly climbed to reach the summit that was There’s No Place Like Home. And it was a summit that the Lost writers could very happily place their respective flag on top of. They’ve been rightly criticised for shockers like SOS, Exposé and Stranger In A Strange Land, but it was this finale that finally cemented their undoubted abilities to write an epic and fabulously entertaining program. Whilst There’s No Place Like Home is undoubtedly a brilliant overall conclusion and episode/s, there are individual aspects of this amazing two hours of television that need to be developed further than just a mere couple of sentences. For anything about this episode, a couple of sentences just wouldn’t be good enough.

Ben. I’ll never agree with some of Ben’s actions. I’ll always condemn Ben for holding Juliet against her will and emotionally blackmailing her. I’ll condemn him for the senseless brainwashing of Karl. I’ll particularly condemn him for the capturing of young children, even if Jacob willed it. But this episode showed something that Ben so sadly needed: emotion. For so long Ben has been seen as a cold, calculated manipulator, able to detach himself from any emotion easier than Locke detaching himself from reality. But this episode showed that Ben is a real man, a real human being. For no moment of time am I excusing the aforementioned actions, but I will offer understanding over the murder of Lucifer Keamy. Many will cite the “So?” as being cold and malicious. But Ben had no reason to care about the boat. The only thing Ben had to care about was ripped from his hands by a murderer who proceeded to taunt him about said murder. As I’ve said repeatedly over the Execution of Anthony Cooper, man can’t separate his emotions from his actions. And to see Ben finally show those emotions – the exact same emotions that Sawyer showed deep in that brig – was beautiful. I only hope that those that showed understanding towards Sawyer will show the same towards Ben, and those that condemned Sawyer for committing the deed should surely do the same for Ben. Even though I believe it’s wrong to condemn Ben, I dislike hypocrisy and hope those that condemn one condemn the other. I will offer immense pride and sorrow for Benjamin Linus upon seeing him turn that wheel. Benjamin Linus loved that Island. He loved Jacob. Yet Jacob stabbed Ben in the back-literally. And so to see Ben sacrifice his place on the Island to save it, to see him look up at the heavens or merely the earth above him and tell Jacob that he “hopes he’s happy”, was bone-chilling. I always used to say that I don’t like Ben but think he’s one of the best characters on Lost. I now think he’s one of the best characters on Lost and I like him.

Sun & Jin – To those who said Jin wasn’t dead I think we can finally put the nail in the coffin of that theory. But when that boat exploded I don’t think there was anybody sat in front of their screens, be they computer or television, that didn’t have chills running throughout their bodies or tears welling in their eyes. I don’t believe personally that Jin’s death surpasses Charlie’s on the emotional stakes, but it was bloody emotional. And that was mainly due to the absolutely fantastic Yunjin Kim. Emilie De Ravin should take note. This is how you portray grief. This is real emotion. This is what happens when the one you love is ripped from you, their hands literally pulled from your own. Sun never got the chance to hold Jin, to tell him she loved him. Jin will never get the chance to hold Ji Yeon, to hold and kiss his daughter. And any bit of emotion that went through your body while watching that scene you can thank Yunjin for. That is how you mourn, that is how you react when your loved one is taken from you. Not the one episode trickle from Claire, but real emotion that comes screaming out of you. If I wore a hat I would gladly take it off to Yunjin. In keeping suit with this finale, it was purely amazing. Last episode, There’s No Place Like Home Part 1; we found that Sun blamed two people for Jin’s loss. Her father was one of them. The second may very well be Benjamin Linus, as we know that Locke has been visiting the Oceanic 6 and therefore will have told Sun what caused the C4 to explode – Ben’s murder of Keamy. This will obviously lead to Sun siding with Widmore in her quest to get revenge on Ben for causing the explosion that killed her husband. Yet the more deserving man to be labelled as Jin’s murderer would be one Jack Shepherd.

Jack – A.K.A Arrogant Prat Number 1. Where is the man that we saw in the Pilot? A man of integrity, a man that would be willing to help anyone around him, this was a Jack that most of us could warm to. And then it all slowly started to go down hill. Some of us lost faith in the doctor long ago, but those that didn’t must surely have after There’s No Place Like Home. If There’s No Place Like Home was a summit for the writers, then it must surely have been the deepest depth for Jack. The arrogance of this man must surely only be surpassed by John Locke. The idiocy is probably tied between Mr. Shepherd and Mr. Locke. However for his treatment of others within this episode Jack was truly sickening. The way he treated Sun upon her losing the man she loves was not only appalling and sickening, but was completely vile. To just bluntly tell her “He’s gone” was disgusting. Sayid attempted to comfort her, an obviously futile thing to attempt in such a situation but he made the attempt. Jack simply told her that the man she loved and cherished, the father of her yet to be born baby was simply dead. Locke has sickened me on many occasions over Lost’s tenure, but I honestly can’t pick out a situation where someone has sickened me as much as Jack in this very moment. As Hurley said a long time ago, for a doctor his beside manner sucks. It doesn’t just suck; it’s completely non-existent. However bad this was, it was only made worse by his action mere moments before, and the actions that killed Jin Soo-Kwon. Kate, very rarely the bastion of decency, wanted to go down into the cabin to get Jin. If she had done so, Frank would have held the chopper that moment longer, urged most likely by Sayid and, yes, Jack. However Jack puts his sickening affection for Kate ahead of Jin. He pulls Kate away from going after Jin, stating that he “won’t leave without her”. But you’ll feel fine leaving Jin won’t you Jack. Sun is right to blame Jack for Jin’s death. If he hadn’t been so infatuated with Kate, Jin would still be alive and may actually be holding Ji Yeon.

Des & Penny – From one relationship that will never get the chance to grow older, to one that has finally got its second chance. We’ve had Skate. We’ve had Jate. We’ve had Chaire. We’ve had Jacket (as much as I don’t want to be reminded). Yet through all of these nauseating love storylines there has only ever been one that truly matters. One that encapsulates both hearts and minds. That relationship between Desmond Hume and Penelope Widmore. Penny has devoted the past years to trying to find Desmond. He has devoted his to trying to get back to her. It was the one relationship that everyone wanted to succeed. Mass kudos have to go to both Henry Ian Cusick and Sonya Walger for making this relationship as beautiful as it is, as when they finally got to embrace each other I’m sure many people’s eyes welled up again. I’m not ashamed to admit that upon first watch mine did. I’m also sure that for a brief moment many people believed that it wasn’t going to happen. When Desmond was found face down in that water, and Jack started hammering away on his chest, more than one mind must have instantly had flashbacks to All The Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues back in Season 1 and Charlie’s hanging. Whilst this wasn’t as strung-out as that particular scene was, I’m pretty sure someone must have thought that we’d lost Dessy. But for the grace of God, sorry Darlton, we finally had the Des and Penny reunion. And it was everything any of us could have hoped for. It was intrinsically beautiful. The only downside is now it doesn’t look all that likely that Des will be in the following seasons, haven found his purpose for living. As he said to Jack, he has everything he needs now, which could point to a distinct lack of Desmond in the forthcoming two seasons. One other person who we definitely won’t be seeing less of unfortunately, despite his apparent death is one Jeremy Bentham.

Locke – A.K.A Arrogant Prat Number 2. The king of the prats. You’d think that seeing his bald head in that casket would have had me doing cartwheels in celebration. And for a moment it did. But then it dawned on me; from now on it’s going to be nothing but how Locke ended up in there. And that’s way too much arrogance than I can stand. Sometimes I do feel that I’m the only one that can see it. He’s so up his own backside it’s unbelievable. And worst off he tries rubbing his backside on everyone else. So what if Jack doesn’t want to believe John? Let him get on with his ways. OK it was pretty smart to tell him he’d need to lie, and yes you can occasional be right, but please don’t be so arrogant as to push your beliefs onto anyone who disagrees with you. He did it with Jack and unbelievably he did it with Ben. Did anyone laugh with disbelief when Locke asked Ben if he did know he shouldn’t put metallic objects in the Vault? Locke, you need to realise that Ben knows infinitely more than you do. You were really stupid enough to think that when you asked Ben if he knew he shouldn’t put metallic objects in there that Ben would go “Oh yeah”, and then take them all out. This somewhat insignificant interaction for me underlines what John Locke is about – pure arrogance. He reeks of it. Judging by the tone of Sayid’s voice, he’s not buying into the theory that Locke committed suicide; and I usually tend to believe Sayid. If someone did murder him then I will personally seek them out to give them a hug, medal and a piece of cake. However I personally believe that when Locke left the Island, which he obviously did to see the O6, then his life slowly ebbed away. This is also why Ben and Jack need to take Locke back with them. And because of this, I feel it’s guaranteed that Locke will unfortunately be a part of Lost right to the end.

But I shan’t focus on that. Instead I shall focus only on the brilliance and majesty that was There’s No Place Like Home. From Yunjin’s heartbreaking performance, to the heart-warming reunion of Des and Penny, to the heart-wrenching turning of the wheel by Ben, There’s No Place Like Home was simply majestic. That’s not only to add what will become of the Islanders (Jules, Sawyer etc), the boaties (Daniel plus redshirts) and the Island itself. This was simply everything I could possibly ask from a Lost finale, and I believe you’d be hard pushed to find a better two hours of television. Since you can really rate one half without the other I’d give Parts 2 and 3, 9’s respectively, but since this was really one big episode:

Overall Rating - There’s No Place Like Home, Parts 2 & 3 - 10

[The Wizard]

First of all I would just like to say that that was stunning! In a good way

That first scene where it went from the flash forward at the end of season 3 to the car reversing was great, we thought that scene was over but it wasn't!

The whole Jack vs. Locke encounter brought back good memories.
'It's a place where miracles happen'
'There's no such thing as miracles'
And then when Ben appeared:
'Nice to see you too Jack'

The whispers when the others were about to open up a can of whoopass were very ominous... why do I like the others so much now?

That was one great fight between Sayid and Keamy, two titans meet, then Richard goes and shoots him in the bulletproof vest, good job Richard

Walt appearing was great, but that actor's growth is just ridiculous!

Funny when Locke was given the orientation video for the orchid, him and his videos And then he got all flustered when it started rewinding, just press fast forward goddamnit!!!

Ben's departing speech and handshake with Lockey seemed very heartfelt, handing over his leadership.
'I'm sorry I made your life so miserable'
'You'll find your way John, you always do.'

'Checkmate Mr. Eko'
Genious

Desmond the hero running around on the boat. Twas funny when he saw the helicopter: 'Oh bloody hell!'

That was agony with poor old Jin, but why didn't he and all the others just jump off the bloody boat!!!

So Daniel and his boaties are just stuck floating around in the ocean, awhoops! I wonder how far they can get in that thing...

Locke is finally the official leader of the others *sighs*

When Ben put the jacket on it all started to make sense and that whole tunnel was bloody amazing! It was like he was going to the centre of the Earth... actually it must have been pretty close

God when that helicopter ran out of fuel it must have been such a horrible feeling, just hovering there in the sky, waiting to fall

I really thought Desmond was gonna die there, but Jack gave him mouth to mouth and cpr and everyone survives that so...

It was great when Hurley stood up for Locke and himself about the island moving when Jack was somehow trying to deny what he had seen before his very eyes.

PENNY'S BOAT! When I saw that scientist guy I felt like kissing him! That reunion was immense.

So they had to travel 3,000 miles to get to Membatta, where the bloody hell were they in the first place then?